The Digital Supply Chain podcast

Inventory management in Digital Supply Chains - a chat with Deborah Dull

June 29, 2020 Tom Raftery / Deborah Dull Season 1 Episode 49
The Digital Supply Chain podcast
Inventory management in Digital Supply Chains - a chat with Deborah Dull
Chapters
The Digital Supply Chain podcast
Inventory management in Digital Supply Chains - a chat with Deborah Dull
Jun 29, 2020 Season 1 Episode 49
Tom Raftery / Deborah Dull

I was asked recently to feature Inventory Managment in an episode of the podcast, so I reached out to Deborah Dull (website, Twitter, Instagram) because a) she and her co-host Sheri Hinesh are excellent podcasters in their own right, and b) because she told me in a previous episode of this podcast that she loves talking about Inventory Management (hey, who am I to judge? 😉)!

And, true to form, Deborah didn't disappoint. We had a fascinating wide-ranging discussion on all aspects of Inventory Management (IM), from the very basic, through to how circular economy theory can be used in IM, all the way to digital inventory, and digital waste.

We had great fun putting this podcast together, I hope you enjoy listening to it. If you have any comments/suggestions or questions for the podcast - feel free to leave me a voice message over on my SpeakPipe page or just send it to me as a direct message on Twitter/LinkedIn. Audio messages will get played (unless you specifically ask me not to).

To learn more about how supply chain leaders improve end-to-end supply chain visibility, download the research study of 1,000 COO’s and Chief Supply Chain Officers – “Surviving and Thriving How Supply Chain Leaders minimize risk and maximize opportunities

And if you want to know more about any of SAP's Digital Supply Chain solutions, head on over to www.sap.com/digitalsupplychain and if you liked this show, please don't forget to rate and/or review it. It makes a big difference to help new people discover it. Thanks.

And remember, stay healthy, stay safe, stay sane!



Show Notes Transcript

I was asked recently to feature Inventory Managment in an episode of the podcast, so I reached out to Deborah Dull (website, Twitter, Instagram) because a) she and her co-host Sheri Hinesh are excellent podcasters in their own right, and b) because she told me in a previous episode of this podcast that she loves talking about Inventory Management (hey, who am I to judge? 😉)!

And, true to form, Deborah didn't disappoint. We had a fascinating wide-ranging discussion on all aspects of Inventory Management (IM), from the very basic, through to how circular economy theory can be used in IM, all the way to digital inventory, and digital waste.

We had great fun putting this podcast together, I hope you enjoy listening to it. If you have any comments/suggestions or questions for the podcast - feel free to leave me a voice message over on my SpeakPipe page or just send it to me as a direct message on Twitter/LinkedIn. Audio messages will get played (unless you specifically ask me not to).

To learn more about how supply chain leaders improve end-to-end supply chain visibility, download the research study of 1,000 COO’s and Chief Supply Chain Officers – “Surviving and Thriving How Supply Chain Leaders minimize risk and maximize opportunities

And if you want to know more about any of SAP's Digital Supply Chain solutions, head on over to www.sap.com/digitalsupplychain and if you liked this show, please don't forget to rate and/or review it. It makes a big difference to help new people discover it. Thanks.

And remember, stay healthy, stay safe, stay sane!



[00:00:03] Everything around you right now is considered inventory. [00:00:05][2.4]

[00:00:08] Good morning, good afternoon or good evening wherever you are in the world. [00:00:11][3.0]

[00:00:12] This is the Digital Supply-Chain podcast. The number one podcast focussing on the digitisation of supply chain. And I'm your host. Global vice president of SJP, Tom Raftery. [00:00:21][9.2]

[00:00:24] Hey, everyone, welcome to the Digital Supply Chain podcast. My name is Tom Raftery with SJP. And with me on the show today, my special guest is Deborah. Deborah, would you like to introduce yourself? [00:00:33][8.4]

[00:00:34] Hi, Tom. Sure. My name is Deborah Doyle. I love supply chain. My focus these days is exploring how supply can help accelerate the transition to a circular economy. That's a lot of what I spend my time on. A co-founder of a podcast called The Supply Chain Revolution. And I also work at G.E. Digital. I'm really excited about today because one of my most favourite topics in the whole world is inventory, which people usually of. But that's why. Tom, are you actually here today? I just could not be more excited about today's. [00:01:09][35.6]

[00:01:10] Indeed. Yes. Thank you for bringing that, Deborah. Because I was asked on a Subrata on supply chain to do an episode on inventory management. And it's something I know very little about. So I thought, who better to get on the show to talk about it than yourself? I mean, we had a podcast a few months back with or your co-conspirator from Supply-Chain Revolution. And you happened to mention in that that inventory management was one of your things. And that's stuck in my head because it sounded a bit odd. So I was asked to do one and drew management. You were the go to person. And thank you for agreeing to come on the show. [00:01:46][35.8]

[00:01:47] Of course. Thank you for having me. So what is inventory management? [00:01:50][2.7]

[00:01:51] Perfect, so glad you asked us if we take supply chain in its absolute simplest form. It has two parts. One part is what I'll call the pipe. So we often call these lanes and supply chains. If we imagine we want to take an item, let's say a pineapple, because I'm thinking tropics today. Wouldn't that be nice? And we want it to go from point A to point B.. So let's say Costa Rica to where you are in Europe. So and I found out actually, when I think about pineapples yesterday, that Costa Rica supply is seventy five percent of Europe's pineapples. This is a very real example. So we might think it just goes from a straight line from the farm to the supermarket. [00:02:33][42.1]

[00:02:34] But, of course, that's not really how it works. It'll go from the farm to a port, get on a boat, maybe a plane, go over to a major port in Europe, get on a train, get on a truck or a lorry and eventually find its way to you. So there's this pipe and there are different pipes that are all connected and there's a whole discipline around that pipe. Can we see inside the pipe how fast does it go? Is it flexible to change mid pipe cetera? So that's what I would call the first major part of the pipe. The second major part, of course, is what goes through the pipe. And in this case, it's pineapple. But those pipes can also support coffee, sugar or electronics, whatever else might want to go on. [00:03:16][41.7]

[00:03:16] Those lanes in this realm of what's inside the pipe is just incredibly interesting to me. And I'll share a little bit about why as we keep talking. And we can hear clues about all of this around us as we listen to the news. So, for example, we hear a lot about disruption in global supply chain these days. And they're talking about either the pipe or the inventory that goes through the pipe. So, for example, we've had port closures. That's the pipe. We've had factories closing. That's the inventory. Last time we talked, I think they had just tragically had to dump milk in America. That's inventory. That's an inventory side of it. And so when we can think about. Why are items out of stock right now? It's wildly frustrating. Write your news to being able to go to the store and have something there. And you go and it's not there. And so, of course, again, it can be either the pipe or it can be the inventory. And we know the whole point of supply chain. The whole reason that we exist is to meet demand. So supply chain is there to meet demand and we fail to do that. It's a huge bummer. But I think about this a lot these days. And if we assume for a second that the pipe is intact, which isn't always the case, but let's just assume that it is and really look at the inventory. Now, something that really is going to show my true nerd ism here is that every part has a set of behaviours, almost like a personality. [00:04:46][90.1]

[00:04:48] And as an inventory manager, we learn the personalities. And I'm rolling my own eyes as I say this, but we really learn the personalities of each of these different parts. [00:04:56][8.2]

[00:04:57] And so if we take something like hair clippers, I don't know, Tom, if you encountered this, all the many short haired people in my life recently have encountered about a month ago, it was really difficult to find Clippers to buy a home. [00:05:12][15.5]

[00:05:13] You sure? Sure. Like webcams as well. And a couple of weeks earlier. [00:05:15][2.6]

[00:05:17] Exactly. [00:05:17][0.0]

[00:05:18] And what's interesting is that we know that there's changes in inventory and it can either be changes to the demand side or it can be changes to the supply side. Either one can go up or down. In this case, fewer people were going to get their hair cut, but they still needed to get their hair cut. So the knock on effect was that they needed, of course, to buy clippers or a webcam because all of a sudden everybody wants to see their colleagues. But the thing is, and I know people notice. So it's maybe silly to say it out loud. It's not like these items are made in the back room, the store where they're sold. There's a whole long supply chain behind them and they come from different parts. And it's it's gotten much, much longer in recent years. Global supply chains have the parts come from different places. The parts are made from different materials, and those materials come from different places. And the longer your supply chain is, the more disruptive a change somewhere is going to be felt. [00:06:16][57.9]

[00:06:16] So if we have a normal little wiggle for demand, it it's amplified throughout the supply chain and something little happens and everybody reacts. And we know the further back and the supply chain, that little wiggle gets bigger, bigger reaction. But that's only from a little wiggle room. We're talking about a massive change. And so that's causing sustained stock outs. And while supply chains try to sort out the type of demand they're really trying to react to, that entire pipe is empty. So if it's if it takes, let's say, three full months from raw material to Kliper on shelf, all of that in-process inventory is going to be empty. And you have to rebuild that up again. So now we have these extended periods of out of stock. [00:07:00][43.3]

[00:07:00] Now, what I think is really interesting is those clippers are made up of different parts, plastics, metals, switches, and they're not the only ones that use plastics and metals and switches. So now we start to really get into what I think is a fascinating sort of web of complexity of all the different parts and personalities of of parts out there, of inventory that want all these different elements. So it's a very long answer to your question, Tom. [00:07:28][27.8]

[00:07:28] But this inventory of just everything around you right now is considered inventory. Fascinating. [00:07:35][7.3]

[00:07:36] And how do you manage it? [00:07:37][0.7]

[00:07:39] It's a good question. [00:07:39][0.5]

[00:07:43] It's something that's interesting that when you push on inventory in the same way, the same thing will happen in inventory. Management is a science. There's maths behind it. [00:07:55][12.5]

[00:07:56] But the challenge that we face is that supply chains don't exist in a vacuum. So it's actually really tough to control the different factors that can impact it. So that idea of if we push on it the same way again, the same will happen. But it's really almost impossible to have the same set of circumstances. Exactly. Push on your supply chain again. So this is really what I'd call the allure of the field for those of us who are taken by inventory management. We encountered this set of challenges and we scanned our brains for when we've seen this happen before. And if we're so lucky to have algorithms running our supply chain, they can scan through what looks similar to what's happened before. So we'll setup supply chains. Generally policies, processes to know when they encounter these sorts of challenges and how to get around it. And we call that risk management. And I think risk and inventory can go really hand-in-hand. Of course, risk management can look at the pipe or it can look at the inventory that goes through. So, again, if we think about those examples from earlier, a port is closed. My factory got closed. Good risk management says that you'll have a plan in place when that happens. [00:09:13][77.9]

[00:09:15] OK. What kind of plan? But typically, what what kind of thing would you would you would you have in place? [00:09:21][5.6]

[00:09:22] Yeah, exactly. So if we think about our pineapple's, you know, there's more than one port to come out of Costa Rica and you'll have a number of elements where you'll say, OK, under these circumstances, the port usually closes and then we'll track. Is that going to happen? Do we think we need to get extra ready? And that's kind of plan A ahead of the issue. Then let's say it actually does close. You should have a plan in place to get around that. So hopefully your inventory is not stuck currently in the port. You haven't gotten there yet. You'll pick a different port. Right. That's going to be an easiest example during the holiday season. In the realm of consumer electronics, it was interesting in my in my days at Microsoft, there would be what I can only call port wars, where different electronics companies would buy out port capacity and take it away from each other. So you get one big electronics company buying out all aeroplane capacity for the most important airport next to the Pearl River Delta, which produces vast amounts of consumer electronics. And then everybody else who produces can't fly anything wildly. Fascinating. Right. I think it's cool. [00:10:34][72.5]

[00:10:36] And then, of course, that's that's pipe related. And so it's like, well, the pipe has got broken. So how are we going to move all the inventory? But these are the types of events that we really need to sit down and think what could happen? And then putting in a preparatory plan. So let's make sure we understand the leading indicators that would indicate we may need to put in our backup plan. And then with something that's happened to make sure we have a plan, there's no fuss about it. We can all just switch and we don't need to call in and have a war room and all this stuff. We actually just know what we're going to do. [00:11:07][31.1]

[00:11:08] It's interesting. And then, I mean, the two examples that you've kind of alluded to, the pineapple versus the hair clippers, they're also very different because the pineapples have the short shelf life compared to here clippers. So how do you manage that inventory? [00:11:25][17.1]

[00:11:27] Yeah, absolutely. So something I like to remind people about is that inventory is cash. And so, you know, in cash, you could argue does or doesn't have an expiration date depending on foreign exchange and different elements like that. So we'll talk about cash for a second and then we'll talk about shelf-life or how long something can last. So thinking about inventory is cash. So if you look around you right now, maybe you're at home, maybe you are at the office. But look around and see the items that you have personally purchased that around you right now. All of that used to be cash your cash and you have used that cash to buy these items. Most likely you've made great choices and everything around you is adding value to your life. But. [00:12:12][44.9]

[00:12:13] You know, there's probably an element or two that you're thinking, gosh, I'd really rather have the cash than this in a very similar way. [00:12:21][7.8]

[00:12:21] Imagine the inventory sitting along your supply chain. Used to be cash, used to be the business cash. And eventually, of course, it will become cash again. And ideally, more cash than what it cost you. But this starts to get into some of the game of how long can something really last. So for right now, the matari along the way is really just costing its money. It's just sitting there and it's costing you money to store it. You've got to pay for warehousing, etc.. So inventory really is this proxy for cash. And most businesses in the world could really use more cash these days. Three ways to convert it, mature to cash and then will actually answer your first one. [00:13:00][38.8]

[00:13:01] We can buy less. So depending on the way that you use safety or buffer stock, how many locations you have, how many stops along the way you need to make, how large is your network? You can do this. You can actually buy less up front. Now, depending on your business, you're not comfortable doing that. [00:13:23][21.9]

[00:13:24] Maybe it's very important for your customers that you never go out of stock. So you have a tremendous amount of buffer stock, a tremendous amount of safety stock. Maybe you're very unsure about a demand signal. So you hold a lot of buffer stock in the case of something like a pineapple with a short shelf life. We wouldn't want ideally to get too much buffer stock because we run the risk of having it not good anymore, which I'll address in a second. So buy less. Now, let's say you've already bought it, so that's no longer an option that's off the table. So a second option to convert it to cash. You can sell it faster. And this is where the idea of inventory turns comes into play. How fresh is the inventory, even if it's not produce? We can talk about freshness of inventory. You might be able to work out a deal with your supplier or your customer where you hold on to the inventory, but you don't have to pay for it just yet. But is it really ideal state to be in? But let's say that nobody wants that inventory. Let's say the pineapple is gone past its prime. Let's say there's a new clipper that came out that's 10 dollars less. So it's actually that you've been way undercut by the market. So either you can sell it for you. Nobody wants it anymore because it's dead, like it can't serve its purpose anymore or it's considered waste for some reason. [00:14:48][84.9]

[00:14:49] So either, you know, metal shavings off a manufacturing line is a good example or this, you know, expired pineapple that maybe past its prime. So then you have this third option of converting inventory to cash, which is you can use it for something else and get paid for it. [00:15:04][15.4]

[00:15:05] This is really where this concept of circular business models come into play, which you and I have talked about previously, of the idea that inventory, the definition of what is inventory can really expand and can start to include what we would previously think just doesn't have value anymore. And there's a whole realm of business models coming up saying, wait, there's more and there's more value in that inventory. You could use it to do something else. So let's say you've got your pineapple that's either over bought, you just have a bunch. So then you need to go find a special buyer like somebody who's having a large distanced party and needs a lot of pineapple for that. Or maybe it's just past its prime. But you find somebody who actually makes cider from pineapple, something like this, you can actually use it for something else. So this idea that you can shift the the the the use for it and change the idea of what is valuable. So when we think about shelf life, you know, you start to get into that middle reason. So can you sell it faster? And do you need to? And in some cases, we don't want tremendously fast inventory turns. But in most cases, we do. We do want the inventory to continue moving through the pipe. We don't want it to be stagnant anywhere. And that really is because it comes back to cash. You know, the whole cash to cash cycle is something that we'd love to get to zero or even a little bit negative. And that's where if you can work out a deal with your supplier, for example, that you don't pay them until after you've shipped it, it does actually exist in some parts of the world. You hit this nerve on a state where you can keep that cash in play for your business. And so the options around how do I treat this inventory in terms of if it's going to go bad or not can help. You can look in those turns, really analyse your pipe, understand the options. You've got one again for grocery might be to have a different buyer that might be a lower end buyer where they move their inventory even faster. So something even like a daily market and. The big supermarket. Maybe it's a less formal farmer's market where it would move that same day. So you can you'll take a little bit less money for it, but, you know, it's going to get moved and so it'll get used. [00:17:23][138.3]

[00:17:24] Interesting. Interesting. Something else we've had discussions about in the past, Deborah, is the idea of digital inventory. What's that? [00:17:32][7.3]

[00:17:33] I'm so glad you asked. Digital inventory. So we talk a lot these days about digital supply chains and I'll delineate here briefly between a digitally enabled physical supply chain and a truly digital supply chain. We're moving bits and bytes around. And this could look like all of the media. We're all probably consuming more of these days. Kindle books, podcasts, Netflix, iPod apps, emails, journal articles. And for many of us, you know, our master data, which I'll come back to in a second. And I started looking at this as I was writing my thesis six, seven years ago. And I asked, is a digital supply chain actually a supply chain? Because at the time I was kind of an argument. It's an I.T. function. No, its supply chain. Who should be owning who should be making policy decisions. And I used the score model as sort of that methodology inker. And during this, I interviewed folks from, you know, from the Kindle team, from Netflix, from Sony, and really explored, you know, what is this even mean? And it's interesting because it comes back to the same concept of the pipe and what runs through the pipe. And at the time, I don't know if I think they still do this. Netflix would constantly analyse the bandwidth allowance that you had, wherever you were, whether you were a mobile or at home or on high speed Internet or whatever, and they'd actually change the quality and size of what they would send you. And often the viewer had no idea that your pipe would change multiple times in a 30 minute show, but very likely you didn't even notice. And so that to me just really is fascinating because our pipe is just dynamically shifting. But what goes through in reality is the same part, quote unquote. It might just be a little bit of a smaller version of that. And so this idea of digital inventory, I still think it really is inventory and the methodologies and strategies we use for physical inventory, whether it's segmenting how we manage it and the diligence can really apply in one. Again, if I bring that idea of master data, as I was talking to some of these folks who I interviewed for this thesis, I wrote what I had asked, you know, what is your inventory? And they would say, it's master data. And if you really think about a digital file, it really would be all of the master data around that file. And I think all of us probably have been part of a master data cleanup effort. At one point or another, and the diligence that we place around inventory policies and making sure it's fresh and cared for and we don't have a big pile of inventory sitting in a warehouse somewhere. If we can apply that same diligence to master data, it's the same problem. And we're still paying for it. So imagine a big pile of master data sitting on a server somewhere. So not a physical warehouse, but a physical server. And you're paying for it. I mean, we pay for space. We pay for data. We pay the power bill. And so it's still costing you money, especially as you start multiplying this over all of the different elements that we're managing. So this idea of can we can we use the smarts from inventory managers to look at this digital world and really optimise? And of course, I just think this is absolutely fascinating. But what kind of a digital inventory have you consumed today, Tom? [00:21:12][218.9]

[00:21:14] Well, tons of podcasts. Loads of tweets on Twitter, for example. I mean, that's that's digital inventory, right? You know, and so we wanted one of the things that fascinates me about the whole digital inventory and this is stuff I've been talking about for over a decade now. It's the carbon footprint of it. Right. And, you know, people think that a shift to cloud computing necessarily means a reduction in carbon footprint. And of course, that's not true. It's not necessarily untrue. It's it's the usual thing of the answer is it depends. So, you know, if you move your infrastructure, you have a you know, a data centre, for example, and you decide to shift it to the cloud and then you're shutting down your data centre. But if your data centre is in France where, you know, 90 percent of their electricity comes from nuclear power and you shifted to Amazon and it goes into eight of us in Virginia where, you know, it's mostly coal powered, your carbon footprint is most likely gone up, you know. So looking at things like that, I've always found fascinating. If you when you look at the different cloud providers, you've got the likes of Microsoft with a jury, you've got the likes of Google with Google Cloud. You've got A.W. are the three big ones. And of those, Google and Microsoft are doing really well on their measuring and reporting of their carbon footprint. And a W.S. are obfuscating as much as they can. So, you know, if I were advising people in carbon footprint for cloud, I would say go to one of the first two and avoid a W.S.. I don't know. Is that kind of is that kind of stuff you've looked at as well? [00:22:57][103.5]

[00:22:59] I have, yeah, this idea of a digital waste and actually report recorded a podcast, Episode 16 of US Approaching Revolution on Digital Waste. And it's really fascinating to me because the cloud is a physical place and people often don't think that it's the oldest trick it in the cloud and I have to worry about it anymore. But there's a real physical repercussions if we take something frivolous, like your vacation photos and you store them twice in two different folders. Just to be safe. Sure. That is double the servers, double the power, double the manufacturing of those servers which use rare earth metals, double the maintenance, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so something I explored was the different types of digital waste, whether it was, you know, and never intended to be created or it was created no longer useful. It needs a good old fashioned Marie Kondo clean out. There is an element that digital goods can actually degrade. So we store this this data over time. It actually rots called Digital Rochard. Really interesting. Couple of elements actually came out of Johns Hopkins a couple of years ago, like six, seven years ago in something that I think about is, you know, to come to mind one on these dashboards that we have running in the office all the time that look really cool, you know, Hallway's and we can see where our freight is, but. It's unlikely anything is actually being done with that information. It's really just to look cool in the hall. And so but if that's real time pains constantly around the world. That's actually a pretty heavy drag. So I always advise, just make a recording and display it on a loop. And it's looks good enough for that day. And then really focus your efforts on what people are using to make real decisions. And then that reason. The second element I'm thinking about is these algorithms. So to train a single AI is the same carbon footprint as six cars over their life, not including manufacturing of that car. One wanted to train it and because it just takes a tremendous amount of trial and error and machine learning takes time. And so be really sure that you definitely need artificial intelligence for whatever it is that you're doing. And then push hard on how accurate do you need it to be. Something I talk about with a team of data scientists that I get to work with is we talk about cleanliness of data because nobody's data is clean. I've never heard anybody go like, guess what, my data is perfect. We need it to be as clean as we need for what we need to do with it. And similarly, we need our algorithms as accurate as what we need to do with it. And sometimes, you know, those last couple points of accuracy, really, there's a huge hockey stick and resources needed to get to that point. So I'd really advise folks to tone it down a little. We've heard so much about flight shaming through these last couple of years. Of course, now no one's flying, but flying really got highlighted as a tremendous drag on greenhouse gases. And it is, but it's about two percent of overall greenhouse gas emissions in the world. And you know what else is two percent is the Internet. It's our collective Internet usage is the same. But we don't really walk around saying, like, close your browser tab, stop sending spam email, which ends up really having similar impacts to giving up a trip or two. So I think this top topic of digital waste is one that will get a lot more discussion in the months and years to come. We think about value stream maps. That concept of finding ways to get applied to digital flows I think is really interesting and will necessarily require the mind of a supply chain professional to sit together with the I.T. folks who really build less the pipe. You know, they help to kind of build this infrastructure, which, of course, again, is an inventory nerd. I just think as well be fascinating. [00:27:03][244.0]

[00:27:06] Deborah, we're running way over time because it's good, because there's just been a fantastic conversation. Is there any question I haven't asked you any topic we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of? [00:27:17][11.7]

[00:27:20] The only one I leave people with is something that actually you and I again talked about last time, Tom, is to think hard about when your inventory isn't useful anymore. And what are you going to do with it? And the knee jerk today is to throw something away or to maybe harvest it for parts. But I encourage you to Google the term circular economy. And the basic concept is to keep an item that's at its highest value for as long as possible. If we do that, we can infuse a ton of money into the economy, make new jobs, and gosh, we really need that right now. So the only ideas just think about your inventory through its life and the idea of giving it new life and multiple life. And then we'll all make more money and the planet will be happy in the great way to throw great way to kick off a week. [00:28:06][45.8]

[00:28:06] And as the fantastic Deborah, if people want to know more about inventory management or about yourselves or about supply chain revolution, where would you help me point them? [00:28:15][8.5]

[00:28:16] Absolutely. So I've got a Web site, circular nomad dot com, that's circular economy, plus the idea of being a digital nomad, which of course right now is on hold. We've got Supply-Chain Revolution dot com. I'm active on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn. So please come and find me. Deborah Dole in circular underscore nomad inventory is my favourite topic. So anything you want to cheque my way more than happy to share their Bretherton brilliance. [00:28:42][26.4]

[00:28:43] Thanks for coming on the show today. [00:28:44][0.8]

[00:28:45] Thank you so much for having me. [00:28:46][1.0]

[00:28:47] OK, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about digital supply chains, head on over to SICP Dotcom's slash digital supply chain. Or simply drop me an email to Tom Dot Raftery at SAP dot com if you'd like to show. Please don't forget to subscribe to it. And your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the shoe. Thanks. Catch you all next on. [00:28:47][0.0]

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