Sustainable Supply Chain

Unlocking the Power of Supply Chain Connectivity with Business Networks - a Chat With SAP's Muhammad Alam

January 16, 2023 Tom Raftery / Muhammad Alam Season 1 Episode 284
Sustainable Supply Chain
Unlocking the Power of Supply Chain Connectivity with Business Networks - a Chat With SAP's Muhammad Alam
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Show Notes Transcript

Hey everyone! Welcome back to the Digital Supply Chain podcast. I'm Tom Raftery and today we have a special guest, Muhammad Alam, who is with SAP and has two jobs there. He's the product and engineering leader for one of SAP's five solution areas called Intelligent Spend and Business Network, and also the General Manager for SAP Business Network

In this episode, we dive into the topic of the digitization of supply chain and the key role of the business network in it. Muhammad explains how the Business Network is about breaking down silos in a company's value chain to create value for the organization and its trading partners. 

He also talks about how SAP Business Network is different than other networks, how it's unique in its ability to create a seamless connection between the network and the systems of execution, and how it can help companies in different industries to increase their on-time delivery, reduce fulfillment lead time and expediting costs. 

We also hear how the network is beneficial for trading partners as it is a low cost channel of acquiring customers and growing their business in a predictable way. 

Overall, a very enlightening conversation that I'm sure you'll enjoy.

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Muhammad Alam:

They've been able to, this is again, a pretty hard cost almost shave off money they spend in expediting goods coming in from their supply chain by 40%. Because if you don't get that predictability, you don't have that collaboration with your trading partner and your supplier of a particular commodity can't produce something or can't produce something on time, then you have to go expedite that. But if you're working with them on planning and collaboration upfront, then you sort of reduce this unpredictability and the need to expedite stuff left and right to be able to sort of keep your production line running

Tom Raftery:

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Digital Supply Chain podcast, the number one podcast focusing on the digitization of supply chain, and I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Hi everyone. Welcome to the Digital Supply Chain podcast. My name is Tom Raftery and with me on the show today, I have my special guest, Muhammad. Muhammad, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Muhammad Alam:

Hi Tom. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. And yes, I can introduce myself. So my name's Muhammad Alam. I'm with s a p. And I have two jobs at S A P. My first job is I am the product and engineering leader for one of our five solution areas that we call Intelligent Spend and Business Network. And in this role I'm responsible for product engineering and product strategy for a portfolio of products that are Ariba, which is our procurement applications, Field Glass, our external workforce application, Concur, which is our travel and expense application, as well as business network, SAP business Network. So that's job number one. And job number two, sort of building on job number one is for s SAP P Business Network specifically given how critical it is not just for SAP, but for our customers in terms of the solutions we provide in that portfolio, that the boards made a decision to sort of make that an end-to-end unit. So I'm also the general manager for SAP Business Network. Looking not just at the product engineering and product strategy, but also looking at go to market sales, customer adoption and the services aspects of it as well.

Tom Raftery:

Okay, so cool. Sounds like you're busy. For, for people who might be unaware Muhammad, what is SAP Business Network? I know this is a big question cause I know it's a, a big product, but let, let's, let's try and break it down a little bit. Who would use it and for what? What kind of problem is it solving for whom?

Muhammad Alam:

Yeah, I mean, I think. It's a really good question, Tom, cuz it's one by the way, just by way of introduction also, if I could keep going on the first question. I I've only been at SAP about nine months, or 10, 10 months. I started at the end of January and prior to that I was at Microsoft for about 17, 18 years. Running dynamics from a product engineering and a product strategy perspective. One of the things honestly, that attracted me to SAP was the SAP Business Network. And as I've joined SAP and sort of dug deeper into it obviously I think the thing that's super clear to me is, you know, we should really, almost, almost exclusively though not exclusively be using the name business network internally as a codename in terms of kind of what it is, what it solves, and how should we talk about it with our customers because it's, it's not a very, I'll call it, sort of usage or use case friendly term for customers to generally understand, Hey, what do you really mean by that? So to me, when I think about business networks in general, not even just sort of what SAP has and, and we can sort of touch a little bit about what SAP has. As well. It's about how you bring down the silos that exist in a company's value chain to create value, both for the organization itself and its trading partner around it, if you will, and not just the trading partners that that organization knows, which are typically known as tier one trading partners, that you have contractual relationships where it could be your indirect supplier. It could be your direct material supplier, it could be equipment supplier that sort of get fitted in your shop floor and warehouses and others. It could be carriers that are moving your stuff from point A to point B. It could be your financial payment provider, it could be your talent provider, essentially anybody that you know, who it is you could have a contractual relationship with is tier one. And how do you sort of make that collaboration a lot more seamless. As opposed to just transactional. And then really the true value comes in is how do you then go beyond tier one into what we call tier N or tier two onwards, if you will. And that problem becomes super complex as well. So business networks essentially is the, the simplest way to think about this is, ERP solves for breaking down silos within an organization. So everybody's looking at the same set of data and executing atop the same set of processes, and it's all consolidated and coordinated across, right. E R P solves for that and has for the last many decades, and SAP's been one of the pioneers of course, in sort of introducing the concept of E R P to break down these silos. Business networks will take business applications to the next level by now breaking down those silos across your value chain with your trading partners in a way that's secure, that the different trading partners have control over their data and it's value based as opposed to just transactional. And by transactional, I mean, sure you need to send an order. We were sending orders before too. It would be paper orders or it would be faxes, or it could be emails when technology came in, or it could be point to point integrations with e d I and others. But now it's fundamentally changing sort of both how you interact with your trading partners what you interact with your trading partners on, and who you interact with as your trading partners. Right. And I'll, I'll sort of double click a little bit on each one of them, and I know it's a little bit longer answer,

Tom Raftery:

No, no better.

Muhammad Alam:

you've got me going on the first question cause I think this took me a little while here to also unpack. The people within SAP could understand it as well, and I think we sort of wanna make sure we don't lose that understanding of a business network is externally. So how they interact with the, what they interact on and the who they interact with. People used to do that for decades, right? In the, how it was, like I said, it could be paper, it could be email, it could be faxes, it could be point to point integrations to create some efficiency in the, what organizations interacted with in their value chain. You could argue with on a whatever sort of the least most important, well, the most important things to go do, which is your documents. Do I need to send a PO shirt? Then I'll send the po. Do I need to get an invoice in? Yes, I'll get the invoice in. Do I need to get a. Advanced shipment notice and I'll go do that. And that was probably it, the documents you had to go send to the external world to get the revenue in or to move the product. And then the, the who with is who you've built relationships with, who you know, who your people know, that you've sort of, struck up a relationship. That's what business network fundamentally changes entirely. So, in terms of how you interact with, with the tech that's available today. It's seamless real time. It's web-based, if you will, in the future, we'll see more web three concepts coming in as well, but it's not just paper, e d i and others. It's sort of bringing the power of connected webs to be able to sort of do seamlessness in a way that, and real timeness that wasn't there before. And then in terms of what you collaborate on, so that was how, in terms of what you collaborate on, it's not just those documents, but it's the full breadth of your business process. So you want to collaborate on your capacity plans. Hey, this is what I think I'm gonna go need in three months, or six months, or nine months. So you give that visibility upstream to your supply chain so they can go plan better too. You want visibility from your creating partners on what capacity they have so you can make the right commitments downstream to your customers or leverage that capacity the best way. You wanna do collaboration and quality, well we've got that too, you want to collaborate on what inventory people are holding in different locations, your trading partners, so you can optimize the inventory to be at the right place at the right time and or move when you need to while you can go collaborate on that. And then let's sort of move even beyond sort of the supply chain aspects of it, the production and the order management aspect of it. You wanna collaborate on logistics well, we've got. You need to be able to track and trace where everything is in a realtime fashion with your carrier. You want to be able to sort of do genealogy. You can go do that all the way through from a farm to fork scenario. You can move into assets. You wanna collaborate more realtime with the manufacturers of the assets, the OEMs, the service providers in case there's an issue. And the operators, you sort of create that network, if you will, that allows seamless collaboration on that same set of data. And then you move into finance and you can move into talent. But it's the what is essentially the full breadth of your business process. Not limited to just the mission critical documents. And then the final element that business network changes is the who. Like today, at your fingertips, you've got the largest business network. And if you need supply assurance, which is a big thing in the supply chain disruptions out there today, you can go find the right supplier in the right region that provides the right things with the right level of granularity of of characteristics that you're looking for. Do I need to sort of increase my spend with diversity vendors? Do I need to increase my spend on a particular region? Do I need to find more sustainable sources? So suppliers that are giving me emissions footprint information, I can get all of that category and then select the right supplier. From any place in the world that you need to as quickly and seamlessly as you can, as opposed to relying on relationships that have been built by your organization to go trade with. So this ability to have sort of the world at your disposal in terms of who you can collaborate with, collaborate in the full breadth of the business processes, and collaborate near realtime seamlessness with the tech that's available is what is business network. And that solves real customer problems, particularly today from a supply chain transparency perspective, supply chain visibility perspective being more sustainable as an organization in your production, in your span. And being more human rights aware, like all of these board level consideration is what business network solves by fundamentally changing who, what, how you collaborate with organizations. So I'll stop there. Hopefully that makes sense. And if in all of that. I never used the word business network. I am happy cuz I think we always need to keep it grounded to the problems

we're solving:

visibility, resiliency, sustainability, ESG, and how we're solving them in the modern way on who, what, how you collaborate.

Tom Raftery:

Okay, very good. One issue that always arises when you're building a platform or a network is the whole network effect. You know, if you have the only telephone in the world, it's no good, but if everyone has a telephone, it's fantastic. So how do you create that network effect? How do you, how do you get enough people onto the platform to make it useful and worthwhile for everyone who's already on it?

Muhammad Alam:

Yeah, no, I mean, I think, listen, this is the, this is the hardest question, right? Because there's a lot of, companies in the world that would kill for essentially having this network effect or building this network effect. But the reality is it's super hard to go build. Cuz the, the first million or the first 10 million, or the first, you know, a hundred million whatever unit you're tracking transactions, customers, users is very hard to go get. Which is why, I mean, I think the, the. So I'll, I'll sort of put this in the, in the SAP context and hopefully that'll answer that, that question a little bit. I think I already alluded to the fact that I'm, one of the reasons I'm here at SAP was because of the disruptive impact us executing on the business network strategy can have. But having the product vision and the set of products is one thing. Having the ability to go build attack is another thing. But the big question is like, you ask can, can we go execute on it and actually land it? And I, I believe this is where. the fortunate thing we have at S A P is we have both got a super large network already with what has been built over the last decade and a half with Ariba, with millions of trading partners, thousands of buying organizations, trillions of dollars of transactions that passes through it today, annually, and hundreds of millions of transactions that happen been essentially on a quarterly and an annual basis through this network, as well as we also power the systems of execution. So our e r p application that is most widely used, our procurement applications, our talent applications. I think the magic comes when you already have sort of the critical mass, which we do. And you have the systems of execution that are critical and you create the seamlessness on how those two come together to create this viral effect, if you will, that hey it's so easy for me from a procurement application to go de-risk my supply supply sources by finding the right supplier from this network that already exists. Or from a systems of execution perspective, if I'm planning in, in IBP or a planning application that I can connect and share my plans and get capacity information back from vendors. Like, it just makes it easier. So to me that, so the more I'll call it the generic answer to your question is. A) There needs to be a seamlessness that exists, particularly for these business to business networks that cut across the value chain on how they connect to your systems of execution. Because if it's very hard to connect to a network to get the value and then continue down the process of executing your, whatever you were doing is not that simple and it's a two-step process or then worst case, a lot of integration that you need to go do, then it really won't fly. You won't get the, the flywheel effect on both building the network as well as the value on who's using it so that seamlessness needs to exist. And ideally what you would have is a critical mass already in the network to provide that value out of the gate to those organizations to say, Hey listen, let me join cuz there's already this critical mass that already exists cuz it's seamless. But then there's also value. If one of those things is missing, then it becomes very hard for it to get virality. Which is why again, you know, not intending for this to sound like a plug, but, SAP sort of having the big network that we have and the systems of execution, obviously the tech and the product vision, it felt like a trifecta of things that come together to create value ultimately for customers in the times that we live in, which are super disruptive.

Tom Raftery:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, speaking of disruption, so you, you talked about E R P and how SAP kind of invented e r p as it were, but e r p implementations are notoriously challenging to, to put it , to put it nicely. Is that something similar with joining a business network? I mean, A lot of the issues with putting in an ERP system are around having to change how things are done internally and people hate change. We, we all know that. I mean, it's technological change in an organization is very straightforward, but changing processes and people much, much, much harder. Is that something that an SAP Business Network implementation will suffer from as well?

Muhammad Alam:

So I'll, I'll answer it sort of two or three ways cuz it's a super important question again, it's um, listen, e r p implementations regardless of whether you move to SaaS or you do on-prem, if you're still doing on-prem, if a few of those that are out there still are going to continue to be hard cuz you are need to, you should be generally looking at how do you sort of maximize the value back to the organization on what sort of essentially runs your most critical functions of the organization. However, that same logic shouldn't apply to networks because once you've done that, the ability to connect to a network and a network by definition means it's more, it's for more than one right? And that also means there needs to be some level of consistency, standardization and ease of adoption for it to actually work. Because if signing into a network requires a significant amount of integration effort or significant amount of customization, so no, no, no. I actually want these 10 things and not the other 10 things that somebody else needs and the network won't fly. Those are point to point integrations and those probably will still continue to live for a period of time, if you will, if not for a long time. So by definition, I think, I think the e r P thing is different than what the experience ought to be in the network. It ought to be that for your systems of execution, it connects with the most canonical set. Schema or data elements and collaboration points to say, Hey, I need to go look for a new supplier. I need to go get traceability information. I need to go track where my shipments are. I need to be able to connect with OEMs and others that there is a predetermined sort of shape and a process. And how do you go do that with some level of configurability and extensibility, because every organization's unique, but that standardization needs to exist by definition. But that configurability also needs to exist cuz the last mile is important. But the design principle for the last mile ought to be leveraging the low-code, no-code phenomenon that essentially has come up over the last few years. That if you need to sort of extend a little at a field, have some specificity. You as a buying organization and you as a trading partner, should be able to go do that in an easy fashion as opposed to it being a huge customization and a or a SI systems integration effort that locks you in and pour concrete into how you've customized it. So the short answer is, It absolutely shouldn't be. It needs to be more standardized. Like who would say, who would go on LinkedIn and say, listen LinkedIn, I need these six extra fields. Cause I want to tell the world about these six things about me and not what you want to tell about me. Like, that doesn't work then it's not a network, right? Because then you can actually go have that consistency. And so for them, think of this as the B2B of LinkedIn deeply ingrained in your business processes. Now again, and, and full transparency, like, we have that experience in SAP Business Network. We need to do more and better, and that's what we're clearly focusing on from a product and an engineering perspective. Make sure that seamlessness just continues to be a north star. That always gets better and better and better for both our trading partners and the buying organizations to benefit and leverage.

Tom Raftery:

Okay. I mean, you mentioned onboarding new suppliers as a, as an example. That's notoriously tricky cuz you've gotta do things like agree credit terms, agree, you know, currencies, if it's different places and things like that. Is that all handled as well or does that need to be done separately outside the, the network?

Muhammad Alam:

So there's, there's two things that generally create either a lot of pain or a lot of work in that value process for organizations that the network, that a network or our network can help. Thing number one is discovering who should you go contract with? Like where does the supply exist cuz that the world of uh, pandemic over the last few years would tell you like, people were struggling to find commodities when countries were shutting down and production lines were just getting stalled. So finding this commodity in a different region with a different supplier was not easy. So being able to have that ability to go look for those new sources of supply, Is what in some cases could make or break organizations or, you know, stop production or shipment and things like that as well. So that's what the network solves, not as mu you know, getting that supplier onboarded is not as much of a pain. It's work, but it's not as much of a downstream impact, as much as do I even know that supplier exists where they are and can we negotiate the right thing. So that's thing number one. Thing number two is then having the right in this is work. So the first one was a lot of pain and a risk. This one's a lot of work and on the work part it is we need to ask these suppliers all these questions cuz we're required in some cases by law or what we need to go do and maintain that on a continuous basis from a certification perspective, quality perspective and things. That's the other then big thing that the network solves for, cuz it takes that work away, which can be actually pretty significant and costly for organizations cuz they have to continually ma, monitor, manage, and update profiles for thousands of suppliers. And if they forget or they're not timely, then it could create risk for them that they just can't manage. Is that's what the network solves cuz the trading partner profile and the network already has those information that the supplier is responsible for updating, cuz obviously it's in their best interest to do it once and then make it available to all the buyers that they're connecting with to make sure they get the current information and the buying organizations benefit cuz they've got this one place to go to, to hopefully get all of the most updated trading partner profile information that they can sort of either sync back or leverage in the network as the source of truth for them to manage, update question and things like that. And then what the network also facilitates is if you do have unique things you want to ask and maintain from those suppliers, then through Qualtrics or a questionnaire type survey that's there. You can sort of actually build that out, use that across all your supply base, and then keep the, your data fresh and hydrated in a continuous spaces. And in some cases, and there's large automotive organizations, like the cost of just doing this part for an organization can run into tens of millions of dollars, believe it or not. I mean, this is just reaching out to a supplier, asking them, Hey, send us your latest qualifications and certifications. And somebody is updating them on a regular basis like, manual process is like worth tens of millions of dollars of cost savings for organizations that could be maintained updated. Is this, it's the most un glitzy stuff out there, but man, it can, it can deliver some bottom line benefits.

Tom Raftery:

Cool, cool. Can you speak to any customer successes on the on the business network?

Muhammad Alam:

Yeah, I can, and I think one of the things I didn't do that I think we're trying to do is make sure I had some names that I could share without getting into trouble here, but you know, the thing that I will say is maybe not directly as much the names of the customer, but the successes that customers have had, if you will, in different industries. Cuz if you look at SAP Business Network, right? We're literally in most industries that you would find, Across the globe, like we've got tremendous amount of presence with N C P G with organizations like PepsiCo that use the SAP Business Network. We've got a lot of presence in life sciences, high tech manufacturing, and there's a bunch of case studies that are, that are available on our website as well that'll give you sort of all the names as well. But the thing that these organizations have been able to, depending on the scenario that they're addressing that's most relevant to them is you know, really increased their on-time delivery by up to 6%. And that's pretty significant if you think about what that means from a, making sure that the production line continues to operate at the schedule that you define, and then the downstream what commitments you've made to your customers. Organizations have been able to almost reduce their fulfillment lead time, somewhere between eight to 23%, which is pretty significant. So then you can plan a lot more predictably on what you need when it's gonna get here. They've been able to, this is again, a pretty hard cost almost shave off money they spend in expediting goods coming in from their supply chain by 40%. Because if you don't get that predictability, you don't have that collaboration with your trading partner and your supplier of a particular commodity can't produce something or can't produce something on time, then you have to go expedite that. But if you're sort of. Working with them on planning and collaboration upfront, then you sort of reduce this unpredictability and the need to expedite stuff left and right to be able to sort of keep your production line running low stockouts, lower maintenance cost through collaboration with the OEMs and others. And then there's a bunch of those kinds of things and, and real value that we have documented in a bunch of case studies that's available. And then on the, you know, so that's one side of it. I, I think I always wanna make sure that I mentioned the other side as well, which is our trading partners that joined the network too, right? Because the buying organizations obviously get the benefits that they do, but what we find if you talk to our trading partners, is the benefit that they get in being able to be part of the network is how they can grow their top line and the efficiencies in being able to respond to the orders that are coming in. For organizations this is essentially a super low cost, cost of acquisition channel, of getting additional customers, getting the orders, and then fulfilling them in a much more predictable fashion. So trading partners love us from that perspective as to, hey, this engine where there's these thousands of buyers can be a way for them to respond to RFPs, discover needs and once they engage and connect, sort of grow their business in a much more predictable way than they would've been able to on a manual basis.

Tom Raftery:

Okay. Okay, very good. Where to from here? What's next for the business network?

Muhammad Alam:

I think as much as, so there's two things. I'll sort of talk about things generically first, and then I'll talk about sort of where we are taking it from a SAP perspective. I think in general, I believe what's next for business networks is for our network there's a tremendous amount of adoption, but this notion of breaking down the silos across the value chain and supply chains. While it's intuitive, it makes a lot of sense and a lot of customers want to go do it. They're still early in their journey. So the big next step in general for the space is adoption. You know, a lot of companies sort of worked through heroics in the last, I'll say, three years since the pandemic hit, and even before that when there was geopolitical tensions from supply coming in from Asia, as well as now with the war in Europe. There's just, just taking superhuman effort to discover additional sources of supply. Sort of having the right visibility into where things stand and and are they able to sort of deliver on their commitments. And then there's obviously increasing regulations on the E S G side as well that they have to go comply with. And all of that is just, Today, I would argue in general brute force effort in organizations. So the big next step in general for this space is adoption. So organizations can actually automate. The functions that they have that allows them this sort of visibility and transparency across their value chain and convert what was a superhuman effort to something that's just, I think, will continue to become a norm, unfortunately, for the world to deal with these disruptions on an ongoing basis, unless you have a tech solution that connects to a network that gives you that ability to do that at scale with low cost of adoption. It's just organizations just won't survive. It's just, it's as simple as that. So that's in general, I think, for the space on where it needs to go. And based on what we see, honestly at sap, like this hands down, if I could share this is, is one of our fastest growing areas in all of S A P, not just in my world. And the adoption and the interest we see is just, it's not surprising, but it is phenomenal. Not surprising because of what the world's gone through the last few years. This is investing in tech to solve these problems is top of mind for boards and cxo. So that's also another data point to indicate what's next coming in this space, which is value adoption and expansion. From an SAP perspective. And I think listen, we've got significant plans here to continue to invest more on use cases that unlock that sort of bring this ability to col the, the what part of it, right? If you go back to the beginning of the conversation, we talked about the how, the what and the who. The what part for us is an ever expanding sort of spectrum of things or portfolio of things. So we're continuing to invest in things that you can go collaborate with, put more deeper use cases in there, as well as drive more industry awareness and industry specific use cases as well. So that's one thing. The other thing that we are working on that's not as glitzy but super critical is how do we continue to add more value to the trading partners? Because unless you can make sure that the who you collaborate what with has the vibrancy and the sort of the, the critical mass and another growing critical mass and trading partners feel they can get value. They can do a bunch of stuff here. You know, the network will falter over time. So we are investing significantly in making sure that the trading partner experience in this is world class and as frictionless as possible, both from a technology perspective as well as a business model perspective, as well as value generation and things like that as well. And then finally, there's a lot of platform work we're doing just to make sure on something like this, there's always a desire, particularly in today's world, right, where states are getting more engaged in wanting to assure supply of critical commodities, or in most cases, wanting to make sure critical data doesn't leave the, the state, the country that they're in, is making sure the platform can sort of natively support those things and we can provide the confidence to these organizations both on the buying and the supply side to say, Hey, if my data needs to be here, then I know it's going to be here. Or if I need to sort of do these things in my data, then we can go do it. And then the, the fourth thing, there's many things, but I'll sort of stop at the, is there's just a significant amount of investment on the E S G and the sustainability side. Like how do we really bring that and make that super easy for organizations?

Tom Raftery:

Nice. Okay, cool. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, Mohamed, is there any question that I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to be aware of?

Muhammad Alam:

I mean, I think you've been super thorough, Tom, I can't think of anything that I think we might have left out. I think we just, we talked about you know, what is business network like, if we don't ever use the word business network, I'd be fine with it cuz it's about how do you collaborate, bring down the silos, and it's the who, what, how you collaborate with in that seamless fashion. And then sort of the benefits and the challenges that customers need these kinds of solutions for. And what's the value it can lead to? Like, I think we hit the main point. So hopefully, like if the intent was to demystify business network, hopefully this this at least goes a little ways towards that.

Tom Raftery:

Fantastic. Fantastic. Muhammad, if people would like to know more about yourself or business networks or any of the things we discussed in the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Muhammad Alam:

I think the place I would direct folks to is my LinkedIn profile. I think that's usually a pretty good source of any blogs or articles that either I do, or I'm talking about or commenting on, as well as things that we're doing as an organization that will at least use that to amplify. So I'd suggest that's probably a good place and if there's anything I can help with and there's questions, I'm also not as responsive as emails and text, phone, text, text messages. But I'm usually generally responsive, I'll say on LinkedIn as well. So if there's anything I can help with there, I'm happy to, as well.

Tom Raftery:

Excellent. Great. Muhammad, that's been fantastic. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Muhammad Alam:

Good. Thank you for having me, Tom. It was a pleasure talking to you.

Tom Raftery:

Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about digital supply chains, simply drop me an email to TomRaftery@outlook.com If you like the show, please don't forget to click Follow on it in your podcast application of choice to be sure to get new episodes as soon as they're published Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find a show. Thanks, catch you all next time.

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