Chris Peer: 0:03

Marketing is the foundation for all your communications. It's the foundation for your employee communications. Strong marketing is gonna help your sales to drive more sales. It's gonna help improve your average order values. It's gonna help improve customer lifetime values. If you improve customer communications, you're gonna sell more to your existing customer base. And additionally, strong marketing can also help you with recruiting and retention of your employees and your staff

Tom Raftery: 0:29

Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you are in the world. This is the Digital Supply Chain Podcast, the number one podcast focusing on the digitization of supply chain, and I'm your host, Tom Raftery. Hi, everyone, and welcome to episode 369 of the Digital Supply Chain Podcast. I'm Tom Raftery, and it's fantastic to have you join us today as we dive into the most current and exciting developments in the supply chain world. To all of this podcast's fantastic supporters, I can't express my gratitude enough. Your involvement and backing are the lifelines that keep this podcast thriving. And for those who haven't yet joined our supporter community, here's your chance to be part of something special. Supporting this podcast is straightforward and budget friendly with options starting from just three euros or dollars a month. Less than the cost of your daily cuppa. This modest contribution can significantly impact my ability to continue delivering top quality content. To join, simply click on the support link in the show notes of this or any episode or head over to tinyurl. com slash dscpod. Now, without further ado, I'd like to introduce my special guest today, Chris. Chris, welcome to the podcast. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Chris Peer: 1:49

Great, Tom. Thanks for having me. My name is Chris Peer and I am the CEO and owner of a company called SyncShow. At SyncShow we do ROI driven marketing for the supply chain industry.

Tom Raftery: 2:02

That all sounds great, but I've no idea what it means Chris. What's ROI Driven Marketing? Well, no, before we even get into that, tell me a little bit about SyncShow. SyncShow, the company when did you start? Why did you start? What kind of problems did you see out there that you decided, Hmm, I think I should start SyncShow.

Chris Peer: 2:23

Yeah, so I've started the company in 2002. We're based outta Cleveland, Ohio, and our focus is to help supply chain organisations to improve their marketing so they can get a return on investment. The, the challenge that we solve and that we really focus on is many supply chain companies, it's a very tough market. It's a very commoditized market, and there's a lot of competition. So we help them to put together a marketing infrastructure that will deliver leads and business growth year over year. And we either outsource, they can outsource all the marketing to us, or we can assist to upskill their current marketing team.

Tom Raftery: 3:07

Okay. And as I said, why, what? What was the kind of Damascene moment that you went through that you thought to yourself, I really need to be helping supply chain organisations with their marketing?

Chris Peer: 3:22

So years ago we had a client, we were doing a marketing program for them and they were in, the automotive industry and they were focused on catering to the automotive industry. And their objective was to just land one of the automotive industry big three as a client. And through our marketing, we were able to identify that not only did we attract one of the automotive companies but they were able to close a deal for over $30 million. And, you know, we were all pumping our, you know, fists in the air. We were all excited, high fiving. And about six months later, that company fired us for a lack of ROI from their marketing.

Tom Raftery: 4:02

Oh.

Chris Peer: 4:03

And I couldn't believe it. So this was going back probably to 2009, 2010. And at that moment we decided that we needed to do things different. So if we could help drive 30 million in revenue for a company, and they felt like they didn't get an ROI, when our, our services were pennies on the dollar compared to what they got. We knew we had to do something different. So, we developed a new framework called the Great Eight Pillars of ROI Driven Marketing. And we lead our clients through that process so that they can get a return on investment from their marketing and stop wasting time and money on marketing that doesn't work.

Tom Raftery: 4:42

Okay. The . The word supply chain or the term supply chain can be quite broad. I come from an SAP background where SAP defines it as, you know, everything from the planning and design through to manufacturing, through to, delivery, warehousing, operations, service, you know, the, the whole kind of gamut. Is your definition of supply chain that broad as well, or do you take a more narrow focus in supply chain?

Chris Peer: 5:12

It is a bit more narrowed. Our, our real focus is on, on the industrial sector, and that includes warehousing, distribution. transportation and logistics companies. So we work with a lot of truck, trucking and trailer, over the road, shipping, rail. We also work with a lot of 3PLs and then the warehousing and distribution facilities, that are part of that ecosystem.

Tom Raftery: 5:37

Okay. And. Within that, are there any categories or any groups that are more, in need of marketing or less in need of marketing than others?

Chris Peer: 5:56

You know, I, I, I wouldn't say specifically the 3PLs, they're, they're much more competitive, and much more commoditized. So I, I think The, the, the pillar methodology and the framework that we've developed is especially important for them, but I, I would say all of them are looking for that competitive edge. All of them are looking to scale and it's really how you go to market with your story and your value proposition and putting all the marketing foundational elements in place that, that, that are gonna be key factors in their growth.

Tom Raftery: 6:28

Okay. And for people listening who are in supply chain, but who you know, don't work in marketing per se, or know much about marketing per se, why should they care?

Chris Peer: 6:43

So a strong marketing effort and a strong marketing foundation at your organisation is gonna help that organisation to scale, you know, significantly, which is gonna help raise the bar across, across the whole organisation. Marketing is the foundation for all your communications. It's the foundation for your employee communications. Strong marketing is gonna help your sales to drive more sales. It's gonna help improve your average order values. It's gonna help improve customer lifetime values. If you improve customer communications, you're gonna sell more to your existing customer base. And additionally, strong marketing can also help you with recruiting and retention of your employees and your staff. So if you really look at marketing as a whole communication system, it's really important to have that foundation built. So that you can really scale it or, or have that snowball effect where it's continually growing and, and scaling

Tom Raftery: 7:36

Nice. Sounds good. Can I have one please?, how do I, how do I go about uh, having marketing that does all that for me?

Chris Peer: 7:45

So at, SyncS show, right before Covid. I'll tell you a quick story, Tom. Right before Covid, I hired a new VP of Client Services and he had worked at a number of different marketing agencies. And when I hired him, he was on his first couple weeks in the, in the in the, in the new job. And he walked into my office and he said, Chris, I've been looking at all of our case studies and how we've delivered results for our clients. He's like, I've, I've never seen this at other agencies. Other agencies aren't getting these results. How are we doing this? And if I'm being honest, I didn't know the answer. I, I said, well, you know, every client has a bespoke customized solution. We have these formal processes that we do. We have, you know, we put strategy first, but I can't really tell you. And so, he said, we need to figure this out. And I, I'm like, yeah, I, we probably should. So we spent the last three years building out a methodology or a framework we call the Great Eight Pillars. And what we did is we looked at two decades of client records and information and we said, okay, what worked for the clients that saw a lot of success and, and what didn't work? What, what key components were in place, which ones weren't on both our end and the client side. And after looking at all these different areas, we were able to narrow it down first to 23 different categories of marketing. Then it was 13 and then we boiled it down to eight, and the aha moment kind of went off when we got to those eight because what we recognized was those eight pillars had nothing to do with marketing tactical implementation, which is what most people think is important. Those eight pillars all revolved around your marketing infrastructure.

Tom Raftery: 9:42

Okay.

Chris Peer: 9:42

love to tell you a little bit more about those eight pillars, but that was the aha moment and the light bulb went off and we said, we've gotta write a book about this. We've gotta help people to stop wasting time and money on marketing that doesn't work. And help companies to show that marketing can be extremely valuable for your organisation.

Tom Raftery: 10:03

Cool. Well, yeah, let's dig into a little more. I mean, what do you mean when you say marketing infrastructure?

Chris Peer: 10:08

Sure. So most agencies, so if you're, if you're, if you hire a marketing agency or you hire an in-house marketing team, most of those marketers are gonna start to work on A tactical marketing plan. So they're gonna say, okay, we need to do, x amount of blog posts per month. We need to do X amount of social media engagements and postings in the different social media channels. We need to do a search engine optimization. We need a new website. These are all tactical approaches

Tom Raftery: 10:39

don't podcasts.

Chris Peer: 10:42

and, podcasts And so they're gonna do all these tactical things. And those tactics by themselves may show some returns and may show some value, but very rarely do they provide the value that the organisation is looking for to help them scale. And so we call it Whack-a-Mole Style Marketing. Because what happens is when you're doing all those tactics and you look at all your data and you realize. Hey, we got a little bit of success here. We got a little bit of success here. The only way to get more success is to do more and more and more. And what it does is it burns out the marketing team. It burns out the sales team. It burns out the leadership team 'cause they're just getting tired of all this. And so, the Great Eight Pillars focuses on the operational, foundation or infrastructure of your marketing department. So we take into account the marketing strategy, your goals, your KPIs, your industry benchmarks, your website, your marketing team, and how that team is structured. And then we can go into the other pillars, but that's just a, a, a flavor for your question about the operational infrastructure.

Tom Raftery: 11:52

Sure. So yeah, let, let, let's go through the pillars because uh, let, let's try and make it, you know, concrete for people listening. What is it they need to do, to to their, their marketing for their supply chain organisation?

Chris Peer: 12:07

Excellent. So let's just step back for a moment and we'll talk about the traditional marketing agency or the traditional marketing in-house team. As I mentioned, they're implementing what I call Whack-a-Mole style marketing. So they're doing a lot of tactics, and oftentimes they will have individual metrics that they're tracking for those initiatives. So we want to back all the way up. And pillar number one is we start with your goals, your key performance indicators and industry benchmarks. So what I mean by that is you need to develop one ROI driven marketing goal. And in the book we outline exactly how to create this. And it's really easy. What you do is you tally up or calculate your total marketing investment, so that includes all your employees, the cost of your website, you know, anything that goes towards marketing. You get that number, you multiply it by 10, and there's your 10x ROI driven marketing goal. So the marketing team's objective should be to deliver 10 times the revenue that they're costing their organisation.

Tom Raftery: 13:14

Okay.

Chris Peer: 13:15

Make sense?

Tom Raftery: 13:16

Yeah, sure.

Chris Peer: 13:19

So then we, identify the key performance indicators or KPIs that are gonna help lead us to success for that goal. These could be everything from website sessions to average order values, but what we really want to focus on are the smart, goals or smart KPIs. So are they specific? Are they measurable? Are they attainable? Are they realistic and timely? And then we compare those KPIs against the industry benchmarks. So in, in, in, in the transportation, logistics and supply chain industry, you can get readily available industry benchmarks to see how you're performing against your competitors.

Tom Raftery: 13:58

Okay.

Chris Peer: 14:00

So that is pillar number one.

Tom Raftery: 14:03

Okay. Keep going. I mean, this is, I I wanna say for people who might be listening, you know, I, I doubt they're furiously taking notes, but at least, you know, to give them some ideas of things they should be doing for their supply chains to, you know, improve their marketing and they're, you know, improved their ROI to your earlier point.

Chris Peer: 14:23

Yeah. And if it makes sense too, we'll just focus on, I think the, the, the key most, top three, most valuable pillars that can really move the needle for your organisation. And then if you want more information, you can always reach out to me personally, or buy the book, or go to our website. But number two is your value proposition, your messaging and your branding. This is the one area that most businesses choose not to do because it's hard, you know, to, to develop a well articulated and differentiated value proposition. It's hard work. And a lot of, a lot of marketers don't know how to go about doing that.'cause it involves your sales team, your customer service team, your leadership team, and to pull all these people together and build out a formal value proposition. it's it's tough work. So a lot of people skip it and it's perhaps the biggest mistake you can make, because without a strong value proposition, your customers and your buyers don't know how you can help to solve their problems. So they'll go somewhere else, and do business with somebody who can, can show that or illustrate that.

Tom Raftery: 15:37

Okay. And is, is it important for that to have kind of a USP if they are a 3PL, for example. You know, there are hundreds of 3PLs out there. What sets them apart from any other 3PL? Why? Why would their customer not go well, I have a choice of hundreds. Why should I use you or stick with you? I.

Chris Peer: 16:01

Exactly. So when we talk about the unique selling proposition or the USP and the value proposition, they go hand in hand. So if you have a strong value proposition and you can identify how you are unique and differentiated in the market, then you can create a USP or the messaging of how to message that value proposition to your buyers, in a story book manner so that they can understand how you can help them survive and thrive. And then you'll gain that business. And when, when you put these things together, not only does your marketing start to convert more leads for your organisation, but your sales team is gonna close more deals because your value proposition is well articulated and, and very strong. And then you tend to see higher average order values, and you tend to see shorter close rates as well. So that USP and that value proposition are critical steps in your, in your marketing infrastructure.

Tom Raftery: 16:59

Okay. And just, you know, to give people kind of a, an example, a USP for a company could be something like we are very sustainable. We use EVs, our carbon footprint is low. Would would that be the kind of thing that could be used as a, a USP and and and a value prop for customers?

Chris Peer: 17:22

So when we look at pieces of the puzzle, like you just mentioned to me, those are all supporting components of your value proposition, but they're not your value proposition. You know, they, those are things that may check the box for certain buyers.

Tom Raftery: 18:13

Okay.

Chris Peer: 18:13

Certain, buyers may be looking for certain certifications or certain awards or Environmental standards and things like that. So those are what we call more add-ons to the value prop. When we talk about value prop, it's what specific value do you offer to your buyers, that makes you the logical choice to do business with? And so that could be a focus on a specific type of industry. Like we have one client they do warehousing and distribution for the toy industry. Very niche, very focused. We have others that focus on third party logistics just for e-commerce. Okay. That is a growing field, and it's quite large at this point, but they've been doing it for 15 years. So, you know, back 15 years ago that was extremely niche and unique.

Tom Raftery: 19:05

Mm-Hmm.

Chris Peer: 19:06

you have to continue to tweak your value proposition and then you build out your, your, your messaging and your service lines to basically support that. So that when your buyer comes into contact with your brand, they're like, that's the company for me. They, they do exactly what I need.

Tom Raftery: 19:24

Okay, cool. So let's, uh, ,let, let, let's throw this one out there. If you were to advise me, as a, in this case host of this podcast, how best to increase awareness and therefore downloads and therefore influence and therefore revenue for the podcast. You know, what would be steps I should or could take to do that

Chris Peer: 19:59

Excellent question. So this, this goes into the next pillar, pillar number three, which is your marketing strategy. So, Tom, specifically, I would say that you have a very strong niche or value proposition. You have a podcast that has over 360 you know, sessions available to listen to and watch. You're specific to an industry niche and you're specific to a particular type of content for that industry. So kudos on the value prop. You've done an amazing job at the messaging of that through your podcast and through your storytelling. So now you've got the, the great value proposition. One, I would go back and say, what are your goals? So establish those goals. Your ROI driven goals and the key performance indicators. If you haven't done it already,

Tom Raftery: 20:50

Global Domination,

Chris Peer: 20:52

Global domination, then you gotta build a marketing strategy. And so the reason that this is pillar number three is over the last two decades we've worked with hundreds of companies and not a single one of them, when we started working with them, handed us their written, documented marketing and strategy and said, can you please help us implement this?

Tom Raftery: 21:14

Okay.

Chris Peer: 21:14

They've handed us some tactical ideas. They've handed us some junk that other agencies have delivered to them. I just saw one yesterday and I was like, they paid, you know, tens of thousands of dollars for this marketing plan, and it's all boilerplate. So.

Tom Raftery: 21:34

Ouch.

Chris Peer: 21:34

I would say if you're gonna scale your, your business and you're looking to really grow, implement a marketing strategy. And that strategy st starts with identifying your ideal customer profile. So the business or the, the organisation that's best suited for your services. Then you identify the buyers. We call those buyer personas. Who are those buyers in that organisation that are gonna make the buying decisions? And then what's your messaging and your strategy for attracting those folks? So in your particular case, like on a podcast, you might wanna look at LinkedIn marketing or other tactical initiatives to help drive awareness from both an outbound and an inbound perspective. And that strategy, you know, takes time to build, and it's supported by research and data and information that you gather to make smart and educated decisions.

Tom Raftery: 22:29

Cool, cool. Good. I'm doing the right things, apparently. Good.

Chris Peer: 22:33

Awesome.

Tom Raftery: 22:34

you, uh,

Chris Peer: 22:35

You're one of the few.

Tom Raftery: 22:38

Oh, I still have work to do. None of these things, are, are, are perfect and, you know, they can stand improvement I'm sure. But can you talk to me about any case studies, any successful customers that, customer wins, customer, success stories that you have, to hand?

Chris Peer: 22:56

Sure. So there's tons of case studies on our website that can be downloaded and, and, and you can get into the details of, you know, the, the starting point of those organisations, their challenges that they were facing and how we helped them solve 'em. But just to kind of boil them all together our organisations that we work with are looking for us to provide that return on investment and to build out their marketing framework and oftentimes, and almost all the time, what that in encompasses is the ability to track marketing ROI, we have to be able to see closed new business through sales. And that requires a CRM implementation. So whether you're using salesforce.com or Zoho or HubSpot as an example, we need to be able to integrate with those systems so we can track a marketing driven lead all the way through close new business. So a lot of our customers, when we're talking about case studies, that's one of the first things that we do, is we work with them to implement and integrate those systems. We're we're at SyncShow, we're a HubSpot Platinum partner. If you're not familiar with HubSpot, or for those of you on the listening that are not familiar with HubSpot, HubSpot is a multifaceted software as a service that both offers both marketing and sales solutions. It also has some customer service and some operation solutions, but we really focus on the sales and marketing side of it. So we can integrate HubSpot with an existing CRM platform, or you can leverage the HubSpot platform. And I mentioned that because it's so critical to connect those pieces. So for all of our case study clients that have performed extremely well, that's the first step. And then other case studies, you know, we're, we're, if you go out and read them. The way we support our value is through leads generated and did those leads turn into new business. So typically you're gonna see 10, 15, 20% increased in new business and or or 10x RoI driven goals through your lead generation programs.

Tom Raftery: 25:00

Great. And where to next? Both for SyncShow the, the company, but also where do you see marketing and supply chain going next? There's a lot obviously going on now in the world of AI, for example, will that be impacting, social media is changing, it's becoming more fractured with the destruction of Twitter. You know, where do you see all that going?

Chris Peer: 25:31

So. Yes, I agree with you a hundred percent. AI is changing the world and marketing is no exception, but marketing's been changing radically for two decades. You know, years ago, marketing was largely two decades ago, marketing was largely arts and crafts. And, I say that only because I, I heard a keynote speaker once say that sales is the lifeblood of an organisation and marketing is arts and crafts and it was about 20 years ago, and I was pretty upset. I was in the audience and I was, as a marketer, I was pretty offended. And I went home that night and I said, damn, he's right, but that's not the case today. Marketing is so sophisticated, you know, it, it's, it's scientific. So to answer your question about AI, AI is gonna be another evolution. We just had a strategy session, internal strategy session yesterday on AI, and you know the effects it's gonna have. It's already changing writing and, and content development. It's not quite there yet. We're looking at, as an example, Tom, we're looking at articles and thought leadership content that the human has written, and we're comparing the results to AI generated content. And the human written content is definitely performing better. It's getting more visitors and lead conversions and more views and more time. But AI, I, I expect within the next six to 18 months is gonna bridge that gap. Search engine optimization, social media, you mentioned, these are all gonna be extremely disrupted through AI

Tom Raftery: 27:15

Yeah.

Chris Peer: 27:16

If you're a writer, or an editor, or a search engine optimization person, or a social media expert. If you do not adapt and start to leverage AI to become more effective and efficient, you're gonna be out of a job. And as a marketing agency owner, that scares me as well. So we're doing everything we can to stay on top of that trend.

Tom Raftery: 27:43

Yeah. No, I, I, I totally agree. I mean, just, I, I know I keep bringing it back to the podcast, but for example, when ChatGPT launched, I started leveraging it heavily to promote the podcast, and I increased the monthly downloads from 8,000 to 13 and a half thousand in the space of five months. So, you know, it was, it, it, it, and, and that's, that was just with very simple tactical use of ChatGPT to help me increase the social media output. So I was generating more social media content based on the episodes I was publishing. Very, very, very straightforward stuff. So, you know, it, it is, to your point, it, it is going to be, I, I would say revolutionary for marketing. Not, not just evolutionary, because it is . It can totally change everything. You know, it can help, you can tell an AI to act as a search engine optimization expert and craft an article, that's engaging and in a professional tone and, you know, it'll come out. You know, tell us how many words you want, tell out the topics, you know, and out it comes and yeah, it, it, it. In terms of thought leadership, I get your point. Human written stuff can generally be deeper and better and more nuanced than stuff so far that can come out of these AIs. But SEO search engine optimization, if you get an AI to write an an article optimized for search engine optimization and written in a professional tone, and addressing these topics, and then suddenly it can outperform a search engine optimization expert.

Chris Peer: 29:32

I, I, I agree. I think the data and the information is there and certain fields are definitely gonna be majorly disrupted. I, I would challenge though that while AI can create copious amounts of content, and in many cases very well articulated and researched content, it's not always accurate.

Tom Raftery: 29:56

true.

Chris Peer: 29:56

it, and I, I would say the one thing that's really important, we talked about value proposition and messaging and branding as pillar number two. If you're a, if you're trying to position your organisation in the supply chain as a thought leader, as an expert in your field, and you're using ChatGPT to create your content, you have to think about the, the use of that content. And what I mean by that is, yes, you can create SEO driven content that you can throw onto your blog or your website to help generate more keyword density and more traffic. But you gotta really think about the other side of the equation. That's your thought leadership content. And so where I think AI has a valuable place in marketing today, and that's to help you get research and information and how to phrase it. But the organisation still needs to have experts in-house to put it into their words and, and and their messaging and their framework.

Tom Raftery: 30:59

yeah, yeah. yeah. And, and there, there are lots of different ways of using it. I mean, you can write a thought leadership article and then run it through ChatGPT and say, optimize this for SEO. Then you've got your thought leadership and your SEO combined. So it's kind of the best of both worlds. So it's, it's, a fascinating space to watch. We are you know, coming towards the end, Chris, of the podcast now. Is there any question I haven't asked that you wish I had or any aspect of this we haven't touched on that you think it's important for people to think about?

Chris Peer: 31:33

I, the only question you haven't asked yet, Tom, is, you know, who should read the book? Who should be most interested in the pillars? And really there's two different audiences for the, the book, the Great Eight Pillars. And one would be the leader, or the executive leadership, president, VP of marketing, VP of sales at the supply chain organisation, or the marketing manager? The person that's in charge of the marketing. I think both of them. This is the, this is what the book looks like. It's for all B2B organisations. So the, the, the, the methodology applies for all B2B organisations. And with our expertise and work in the transportation, logistics and supply chain industry over the last decade, we've factored that into the, the framework as well. But, if you're a leader or president, leadership in a supply chain organisation, reading the book will help you to not only understand marketing, but how to manage your marketing department. So it's not about how to do marketing, it's about how to create a marketing operational infrastructure. And every c-suite level person should be aware that there is a formal process for that, but it's also how to hold your agency accountable. Or your team accountable.

Tom Raftery: 32:49

Cool. Cool. And just as a, as a follow up, I know that there's quite a few, not just, supply chain execs who listen to the podcast, but also supply chain academics and students. So do you think this would be a, an interesting book for them?

Chris Peer: 33:06

Absolutely. It's written in a very informal manner, so there's not a lot of industry technical speak. I, I think if you're a student or an academic, working your way up through the supply chain industry and you're not really sure where you want to go. It could be in sales, could be in marketing, could be in operations. I think this book, you know, will help you to just have a perspective on how to build an operational infrastructure and really you could apply some of these same theories to any department within an organisation, to help it scale.

Tom Raftery: 33:36

Cool. Cool. Chris, if people would like to know more about yourself or any of the topics we discussed in the podcast today, where would you have me direct them?

Chris Peer: 33:44

The best place to go is sync show.com, which is S-Y-N-C-S-H-O w.com. That's my website, my my company website. You can also pick up the book on Amazon. Just type in the Great Eight Pillars of ROI Driven Marketing and you'll find the book. It's Orange and black, so it's pretty easy to see. And then, yeah, so on our website you can just request a consultation and typically those are gonna get filtered down to me eventually. And we can connect and be happy to help anybody answer any questions. And if you are struggling with your marketing and not getting a return on investment, I'd love to talk to you 'cause I believe we can help.

Tom Raftery: 34:25

Fantastic. Fantastic. Chris, I'll put the links in the show notes so people will have access to them, including a link to the the Amazon page for the book. Great. That's been fascinating. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Chris Peer: 34:36

Thanks, Tom. I appreciate it.

Tom Raftery: 34:38

Okay, thank you all for tuning in to this episode of the Digital Supply Chain Podcast with me, Tom Raftery. Each week, over 3, 000 supply chain professionals listen to this show. If you or your organization want to connect with this dedicated audience, consider becoming a sponsor. You can opt for exclusive episode branding where you choose our guests or a personalized 30 second mid roll ad. It's a unique opportunity to reach industry experts and influencers. For more details, hit me up on Twitter or LinkedIn or drop me an email to tomraftery at outlook. com. Together, let's shape the future of the digital supply chain. Thanks. Catch you all next time.