In this the fifth episode of the industry 4.0 on Fridays series I talk about the importance of Industry 4.0 in helping organisations reach their emissions reduction sustainability goals.
I spoke to Ganesh Bukka, Wipro's Global Head of Industry 4.0 and Pavneet Bedi Channel Director, Industry4.NOW Global Partnerships at SAP.
We had an excellent conversation and, as is often the case, I learned loads, I hope you do too...
If you have any comments/suggestions or questions for the podcast - feel free to leave me a voice message over on my SpeakPipe page or just send it to me as a direct message on Twitter/LinkedIn. Audio messages will get played (unless you specifically ask me not to).
To learn more about how Industry 4.0 technologies can help your organisation read the 2020 global research study 'The Power of change from Industry 4.0 in manufacturing' (https://www.sap.com/cmp/dg/industry4-manufacturing/index.html)
And if you want to know more about any of SAP's Digital Supply Chain solutions, head on over to www.sap.com/digitalsupplychain and if you liked this show, please don't forget to rate and/or review it. It makes a big difference to help new people discover it. Thanks.
And remember, stay healthy, stay safe, stay sane!
every industry should start looking at what is my sustainable engineering charter? What is my technology landscape? What is my value streams that I need to start looking at? That's important. And today with industry 4.0 I think we have very strong tools and approaches to enable the Transform to Net Zero goal.Tom Raftery:
Good morning, good afternoon or good evening wherever you are in the world. This is the digital supply chain podcast, the number one podcast focusing on the digitization of supply chain. And I'm your host, global vice president of SAP. Tom Raftery. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the digital supply chain podcast. My name is Tom Raftery with SAP and with me on the show today I have my two special guests perv, neat and Ganesh. Gentlemen, would you like to introduce yourselves? Maybe ganache going first?Ganesh Bukka:
Yep. Thank you, Tom. Very Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Ganesh Bukka. I lead Wipro's industry 4.0 practice globally. And I'm based in Netherlands and been with about 25 years of experience in digital supply chain and very excited and happy to talk to you about what we do and the sustainability and industry for our silver initiatives. Lovely and hackneyed.Pavneet Bedi:
Hello, everyone, this is Pavneet. I'm coming to you live from Singapore and part of the global supply chain challenges team and I work closely with partners like Wipro on the industry photos zero topic.Tom Raftery:
Tremendous. And what we wanted to talk about today, guys was the whole kind of transforming to net zero with industry for Dotto and how industry for Dotto can help people on their sustainability journey. And Ganesh you you lead. Wipro is industry for lotto practice? So maybe you can talk a little bit first about that. What Why do you think it's important that we transform to net zero? Why is that a topic of interest for us and how are Wipro working in that direction?Ganesh Bukka:
Wonderful. Very good question Tom. And for Wipro transformed to net zero is a very important initiative and a commitment. And this is something that's really coming from the top down with our CEO to the laboratory recently announced our commitment on transforming net zero. And as you know, one of the important aspects is our consistent commitment to those sustainability initiatives, primarily and Wipro is listed in the Dow Jones Sustainability Index for several years. Now, what is transformed to net zero organization? And what is the role in that as we are looking at helping organizations in Drive carbon neutrality and driving the GA greenhouse gas protocols? Now there are two ways to address carbon neutrality one is driving the balancing of global emissions are removing the global emissions. So it's one of these would primarily help us in the overall objective to drive carbon neutrality that drives sustainability. And for us, sustainable engineering is a way to achieve this.Tom Raftery:
Okay, let me dig a little deeper into that the Ganesh because I want to get ut the why this is imp rtant. I know myself why I think it's important. But I might be a little weird that way. re Wipros customers intere ted in transforming to net ze o? Is this a demand you're seeing from customers? And if so, why? Why is it import nt for them?Ganesh Bukka:
No, it is ab olutely relevant and need of th hour, Tom and and they've giv n given the global warming. Thi is an absolute necessity. And every customer that I talked to, we do see this and I can giv you one simple example. You tak an example of a smartphone sma tphone manufacturer. So we as smartphone factor we man facture we talk about energy eff cient devices. But for us, whe you look at the value chain of he smartphone manufacturing, the e are different sources of whi h the emissions are tri gered. One is as a direct adm ssion that is coming out of the manufacturing process by the OEM manufacturer smartphones. The second source is basically bec use he's buying the power to pro uce whether it is the power gen ration the utilities, there is n emission footprint that we are leaving that's a secondary sou ce. That's called the scope to n a typical transform to net zer . The scope three is the com lete value chain because you hav suppliers across the globe who are producing components and tho e components have certain com liance and some carbon foo print company contribution to t. So these are the three lev rs Drag. And the challenge tha is how do you really con rol them in order to control the , you're to measure them. And that's important that every CXO in our customers org nization have started really tak ng this as a highest pri rity in the business goals.Tom Raftery:
Okay, very good, very good. And permit this idea of measuring them this, this is a, this is a complex issue, because, you know, it's not something that we've had to do before. And it's going to require a lot of data. And, you know, industry forward at all is a new way of accessing data in organizations. So how are we looking at capturing that data? And how important is that data for this?Pavneet Bedi:
Yeah, Tom. And I think building on the example that Ganesh gave of the smartphone manufacturer, there are a lot of touch points, a lot of areas where data is generated. And making sense of it is important, because otherwise you don't know where you stand currently. Yeah. So as we discussed in our last podcast, as well, data is the hallmark of industry 4.0. And just bringing it to life in the example, there are various places, for example, let's start with the enterprise. The employees who are who are making calls, to customers who are actually traveling are contributing to the scope, one direct emissions that that hit that ganache talked about, then you even look at, you know, the employees who are using a lot of digital equipment like laptops and phones, managing, managing their disposal, and renew and renew. renewal is also a very key part of this. Now, as we move to the factory, I think that's a more known area. For us, we talk about sensors and IoT devices, and Ganesh mentioned utilities, consumption data, so all that needs to be captured. But what is really important is what happens outside the four walls of the factory and the office, which is the entire supply chain. So let's say there are three PL partners who are bringing the finished goods into warehouse and then transporting them. So what are they doing about this? What are your suppliers doing? What are your other contract manufacturers doing? Who do the stuff that you don't do? So when when these things are disconnected? We we ended end in an area of limited visibility. And we are not able to really carve a roadmap towards how we solve this problem at all. So that's, I think my two cents on what role data plays in in demystifying sustainability.Tom Raftery:
Okay, and, Ganesh? Can you maybe speak to some interesting solutions you've seen in this area?Ganesh Bukka:
Right, um, so first and foremost, as right. Can you talk about sustainability and sustainable engineering? How efficient and effective can be? So I'm sure all of us are talking about batch size of one. So how do we produce the right quantity, the right configuration that a customer wants so that we don't really stock up and avoid unnecessary inventory pilferage because all of that contributes to emissions. So bad size of one is an important aspect. The second part is, as public mentioned, the data becomes an important driver in this whole initiative. So if you don't have insights to what you produce, if you don't have insights to what you consume, and how it is operating, so the data insights is the second variable that I would say. The third part is enabling connectivity. Because today, while you are actually looking at data, how do you collect the data, the sensors, the devices that helps you monitor and then visualize it, this is the third aspect. So if you have these three things, you pretty much have a command on what you're trying to optimize and what you're trying to control. So in short, it is basically control, collaborate, and optimize. That's how we put it across top.Tom Raftery:
Okay, and have you any specific examples that you could speak to,Ganesh Bukka:
but quite a lot? Let me start with the first one the smartphone devices right. So if you take a smartphone, there are 1000s and 1000s of components that goes into it. So as a primary source of sustainability, we look at the material components, the contribution of various materials that are actually going into those databases, right. So if I know what is the material composition, and what is the contribution of materials to the sustainability. So one is from a regulatory compliance. One is in terms of its contribution to carbon footprint. This is very important. So one of our customers and leading smartphone manufacturer has a full fledged material disclosure compliance system, which is driven by the typical product lifecycle management. So by enabling a digital platform for full material disclosure and compliance, you're able to track the entire footprint of how these components in a smartphone is contributing to the sustainability initiatives. And that's the first exam, if we look at the second, so we have large factories, retail stores, and when we look at building, so Building Information Management, the BIM models that we talk about. So by doing more of digital engineering, before even I go in building and commissioning a plant or a retail store, I'm able to use the typical 3d for the 16 build models to plan my overall construction and commissioning process. So it enables me to make sure I get things first time, right, so eliminating wastage, I'm able to plan better energy consumption by designing my paycheck by designing my heat sources, energy sources, virtually simulated rather than trying to get into the near real time model. So that's the second option of how companies are leveraging BIM models to drive sustainability. The third part is, if you take assets, it could be as simple as simple as sewer flooding in a city of London, or it could be any part of the world. So in sewer, there are several harmful gases that gets emitted. So that contributes to pollution. So what we are doing is developing custom sensors, which will actually prevent a flooding situation. So sensors, as I said before, are helping to monitor a system predict a failure before it happens. And how do I avoid a breakdown? So these are, I would say, some quick examples that I could talk about how they contribute to sustainable engineering,Tom Raftery:
super absorbent pad needs, you know, can you talk about, you know, what you think, is the implication of these solutions? You know, how are they are they helping? Yes, Tom.Pavneet Bedi:
So I think the amazing examples that Ganesh gave just now, they lead to a lot of benefits. One is, you know, I think the obvious ones are the visibility. We already spoke a lot about that. But I think the more we see whether it's a b2b or a b2c customer, today, they are looking at buying sustainable products, they, if it's a b2b company, they're looking at buying it from sustainable companies as well. So when you do these things, right, I think it creates a much higher pull effect, Dan, just just minimizing carbon footprint, it is helping companies in making this sustainable partner selection, so that the entire value chain is is made up of partners that align on these values and the vision, right. So I think that's, that's really good to make the big difference. Now, I think there's a very important point that you picked up in another session of yours, which links this to business models. So I think that is another key aspect, because a sustainable business model is also able to be profitable. I think that's the new mantra, because it's not just that I we do a couple of CSR or sustainability projects to show it in our annual reports. But but I think it's really makes a difference. So to give you a local example, I live in Singapore. And we do have a very holistic sustainability framework here. and ignore just includes the digitalization of our industries, but it also looks at inclusion and diversity, you know, good health and well being, and the government itself is reporting on it. So I think, eventually, if we do this, right, not only does it helps in the baseline, which is compliance, but it helps in really finding those value partnerships. And also in the future, it could mean bigger investments for companies with such agendas. So I think I think the impact is really big. If you just me,Tom Raftery:
yeah, no, I totally agree. In fact, the way I've started to frame it know for organizations is first of all, customers are starting to demand this. So if you are able to demonstrate to your customers, that you are more sustainable, then you will attract more high quality customers and you will retain a lot of the customers you already have. So you're increasing your your top line there, then employees are also demanding it. So If you can demonstrate to your employees, you're a more sustainable company, you will find it easier to attract higher level employees. And you will find it easier to retain the employees that you already have. And so your cost of employee turnover falls, so you're reducing your costs as well as increasing your income. And then you have regulatory issues, because that's going to become more and more and more of an issue we already saw, for example, Volkswagen get hit with a fine here in Europe of over 100 million euros for missing their emissions targets in 2020. And those kinds of regulations are going to become stricter and stricter. So you have the regulatory side, you have the increased customer side, and you have the reduced employee turnover side. So, you know, it would be crazy for customers not to want to go down this route, Ganesh, for our customers, what what do you think next steps should be?Ganesh Bukka:
So I'll probably put it in a very simple terms, the approach as well as the technology aspect, from an approach point of view, as I mentioned, first is, do you have a control? Do you have a better control of your systems? And if you have a better control of your systems? How do you collaborate with your ecosystem? If you have better collaboration, can you leverage them to optimize the system better. So control, collaborate and optimize this is how from an approach point of view, from a technology point of view, you need smart solutions, you need digital solutions, and you need intelligent systems. So we call it the SDI framework with an industry 4.0 approach, offer pro where the SDI overlaps to the control, collaborate and optimize approach to make it happen. So basically, the three next steps for customers that I would suggest is visibility, build a strong visibility of data systems, segment by segment, you don't have to boil the ocean, start with a smaller segment, identify the data value, create the value case for it, and show the buy in and take the buy in from the stakeholders. Then using that data stream and the visibility that we are able to create, can we pilot a solution, measure the impact and take actions, and then we could probably scale it across the organization to really drive that overall sustainable maturity. That's how I see it.Tom Raftery:
Okay, very good. Very good. Folks, we're coming towards the end of the podcast. Now, is there any question that I've not asked you that you wish I had? Or does any of you topics we've not addressed that you think it's important for people to be aware of? Let's say pap need to go first?Pavneet Bedi:
Yeah. So Tom, I think the other point that I wanted to add to Ganesh point is that when customers look at industry forward zero as a as a broader topic, it's a topic that needs to be brought to life with machines and technology working together. And I know that Wipro has its own innovation hubs to, to kind of, you know, immerse the clients. And I think that, that idea can be extended to not just immerse them, but to kind of help them understand how this will, you know, lead to your sustainability goals. And I think that will be a slam dunk, in my opinion. And we are discussing options of how we could collaborate with our innovation hubs and, and figure out a way to create this virtual or, you know, sometimes bridging the physical and virtual immersion to make this happen. Nice,Tom Raftery:
nice connection, anything that we didn't touch on, that you think is important for people to be aware of.Ganesh Bukka:
And, again, Tom, just to kind of recap, what I see is, sustainability is not just a one off option, it is going to be the de facto for every organization and every customers have a pro and sap together. And our objective is how do we transform to the goal of transform to net zero? And the key is, every customer, every industry should start looking at what is my sustainable engineering charter? What is my technology landscape? What is my value streams that I need to start looking at? That's important. And today with industry? 4.0? I think we have a very strong tools and approaches to enable the transform to mindset have gone.Tom Raftery:
Very good. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And you know, you guys nailed it. It's all about data because you need to be able to figure out what your emissions are, so that you can measure them so that you can act on reducing them and so that you can report them because this is going to become increasingly required, and increasingly, customers are Going to demand in RFPs. And the like that you report your emission so that they can make emissions reductions themselves in their procurement processes. So this is this is something that's going to become more and more important. Okay, we're coming to the end of the podcast now, folks. Any any final words before we cut to the end?Pavneet Bedi:
I'll go for it, Tom. So what I what I just wanted to leave the audience with is, is the is the messages, right? So I think industry voted zero is a key enabler of the net zero vision. This brings the messaging from ripple and sap together. Now, on realizing this front, we are working already on specific solution areas, like for example, we are working the pro or a lot on the engineering side, and a lot on the asset side. But I think what what I would, the strong message that I wanted to leave everybody with is that, if done right, we are able to realize a broader vision and the broader benefits for our clients. Together, I think that that was the message I will leave the audience with loving.Tom Raftery:
Okay, if people want to know more about yourselves Ganesh, about that need about Wipro? Or about any of the topics we discussed in the podcast today? Where would you have me direct them? Let's say again, I should go first?Ganesh Bukka:
No, again, if you firstname.lastname@example.org, we have already outlined our transformed net zero goals as a charter, which is available on wipro.com website and our engineering NXT framework, which outlines industry 4.0 overlay to transform to net zero. So I would say these are the two sources for everybody to find out what is our force to action right now. Okay, andTom Raftery:
that need any links that you want to mention for me to put in the podcast?Pavneet Bedi:
Yeah, Don. So basically, we have the our industry forward zero experience website, which, which is, which has a lot of these details and industry buys use cases and stuff? So I would say that would be a key source. Maybe we could put that link as part of our, our text after the podcast.Tom Raftery:
Sure. Sure, sure. And I should also remind everyone that I also run a climate 21 podcast, which goes out every Wednesday, search for climate 21 in your podcast application of choice, and you'll find lots more about the initiatives around transforming to net zero. So with that, thanks, everyone for your time and attention, Ganesh parinita, thank you for coming on the podcast today.Ganesh Bukka:
Thank you for having us. It was pleasure talking to you, Tom and Tony. Thank you.Tom Raftery:
Thank you. Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks, everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about digital supply chains, head on over to sa p.com slash digital supply chain or, or simply drop me an email to Tom email@example.com. If you'd like to show, please don't forget to subscribe to it and your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the show. Thanks. Catch you all next time.