Erik Lund: 0:03

How will this actually play into your perception of us as a brand? It customs will make the system patient that and you know, we all fighting for talent, you know, how are we being perceived as an attractive employer where we are not only working for achieving the best book for shareholders, but actually also taken our our global responsibility series

Tom Raftery: 0:33

Good morning, good afternoon or good evening where everyone in the world this is the digital supply chain podcast, the number one podcast focusing on the digitization of supply chain. And I'm your host, global vice president of SAP. Tom Raftery. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the digital supply chain podcast. My name is Tom Raftery with SAP and with me on the podcast today I have my special guest, Eric. Eric, would you like to introduce yourself?

Erik Lund: 1:00

Thank you, Tom. Great for having me here. My name is Eric Lund, I'm heading up a business unit within Sony called Sony Visilion. Based out of Lund in Sweden, which is focusing on developing and bringing onto the market a real time tracking or supply chain visibility solution to the market.

Tom Raftery: 1:24

Okay. And tell me a little bit more about did you call it Visilion?

Erik Lund: 1:30

Visilion, Yeah.

Tom Raftery: 1:31

Okay, so what exactly is it? And how does it help people? What problem is it solving for people.

Erik Lund: 1:39

So, in terms of when when you talk about real time tracking or supply chain visibility, what we are providing people are what we're providing logistics managers with is understanding both in real time on where their cargo czar and and how that car was doing, as well as providing the ability to achieve aggregated data where you can work on your flows or patents, data impacting your your transport. So you could say, as such, we are enabling companies, we are enabled at the people working in supply chain with ability to get the answers of what we simply say, so data when in house, where are my goods? When can I expect them? And how are they doing? Okay? And

Tom Raftery: 2:31

is this a hardware play a software play a combination of the two, how does that work,

Erik Lund: 2:38

it is a combination of the two we as it is today still require a communist require a tracking component that is added to the cargoes added into the trailer or into the container. Depending on how the transport has been done, where you achieve the the understanding of those three questions, and then weather with a platform that then visualizes what you're seeing and, and providing contextual understanding of of what it is that you're you're seeing. But at the same time, also then providing the connectivity into you know, transport management systems like, like SAP, where you don't have an integrated flow of the order creation, and then when it's hitting at the other end in the value chain of what is happening in between. So supply chain managers can work with the real time data that has been generated during the transport.

Tom Raftery: 3:40

Okay, and is this just in terms of delivery model? Is this a cloud delivered solution? Or do I kind of get it in a box and deploy it on my own system? Do I log into it? How does that work?

Erik Lund: 3:57

So you can say it's a combination of two it is it is a cloud based solution with the with the hardware being delivered out to you and that needs to go into the into the operational flow of your company of your transport, whether you're working with this directly or you're working with your logistics services provider in in providing these services for you. And then certainly we do see companies working or wanting to work within the platform, but also and in the context of both companies that are very much engaged when the transfer management system and or analytics system want to see data being represented in your system for further augmentation and analysis. So it is a combination of the two and I think we and and not only we but also others in our in our field are focusing on the need to focus on being being quite gold and being able to do To share the data, the data then it generated from and collected from from, from the system here.

Tom Raftery: 5:06

Okay, and which kinds of industries? Or are there any specific industries that benefit more from this than others?

Erik Lund: 5:16

What we've seen what's been quite interesting during the last two years by now, where basically, the Black Swans have been sort of popping up in a row one by one, first pandemic tender pandemic related, no supply chain disruption. And then it's just a general massive supply chain disruption that we're seeing right now has very much brought this onto the onto the agenda of the executive suite, across multiple multiple industries. Traditionally, initially, we were seeing interest within, you know, transport of valuable goods, where you're working with the supply chain security aspects, electronics, where you're having high impact value chains, pharmaceuticals, perishable goods to a certain extent, but but now we're seeing it across basically all and every industry verticals, that taken interested in this, and taken an interest in this in the context of, you know, how they can improve the planning, how they offset any of all the disruption that they have. Companies, I'm sure that you've had conversation earlier and in with other executives, where, where, where you're looking at how can you build in not only resilience in your pipeline, because you need to plan with multi sourcing, and so on and so forth. But you also through the real time visibility, able to act on, you know, disruptions that are happening now. So you express beautifully by a partner in Boston Consulting Group about a year and a half ago, exactly. What we're seeing now is really driving both the agility excuse me, both the resilience aspect of work, which is supply chains, as well as needing to achieve this agility, right. Whereas supply chain visibility or real time tracking was a nice to have, that when people were exploring has very much been moved up from more and more interested in more and more companies, to something that they need to have to be able to act in the current environment.

Tom Raftery: 7:41

Yeah, yeah, pretty much. It's having that information, isn't it? I mean, if you tell me my shipment is delayed, it's frustrating. But if you tell me my shipment is delayed, but it will arrive next Thursday, then it's okay. Now, I know, it's delayed, but I also know when it's more likely to arrive, and I can plan against that. So having that extra bit of information is crucially important.

Erik Lund: 8:04

And I had, I had a had a conversation with a waiter with a German manufacturer of, of, of white goods that were in the process, or had been in the process of moving more and more component manufacturing, offshore. And focusing more on doing the assembly within within Germany, were just at the moment where you had advocated in sitting in the Suez Canal, are just briefly after where we're exactly that they were in a situation where the taking more than four to five days, for them to be able to understand if our produce our components in containers are insertional before after ever given. And it's very difficult to do you know, any kind of manufacturing planning, if that is the case. So for the same reason, our tagline when we talk about the ceiling is really now you know, and, and as you point out yourself, things might go bad, but at least if you have an understanding of when, where and how you can act on it, rather than them being left in the dark.

Tom Raftery: 9:21

Okay. And talk to me a little bit about the let's, without going too technical about the communications protocols and the kinds of sensors involved. I mean, is it three G's at 4g, is that 5g? Is it up to whoever buys it to install whatever communications protocols they want? You know, how does that work?

Erik Lund: 9:40

Yeah. So So the technology is predominantly based on on cellular communication. So there's a an IoT standard 45 5g Kedem to Academy, excuse me, that we are basing ourselves on and you see that, by the vast, vast majority of Have companies within our area that are currently patient yourself on on cellular connectivity one way or solid or the others. In addition, when when we talk about our solution, we have the ability to integrate into BLE or Bluetooth based connectivity not only you know, checking in taken out of environments, but also augmenting our capabilities by integrating external Bluetooth enable of epi enabled sensors and devices, which which we do see it becoming something that certain industries are looking for, from from a sensor array point of view, then beside, you know, understand the way about true either DPS or or solar triangulation attempt, then we gathering information and under sort of basic parameters of a humidity, temperature, aspect of shock, whether it can be you know, acceleration, pressure, tilt, and so on, so forth. And, and light. And, and really, at the delight aspect is very much related to when when you're looking at the security use cases, that you want to understand, if there's an scheduled or unscheduled breach of your trailer or container on schedule access, Tu, Tu, Tu, tu tu the goods that are being handled, when when you look at a certain of the other aspects that are mentioned in terms of pressure is that we are focusing on being able to provide a full multimodal capability for the customers. So that includes not only you know, the land based MC bait, most of transport, whether it railroad or ocean, but also air freight, right, which means that, you know, our solution is able to take, okay, we are taken off, we need to shut down communication while continuing to record conditional data, and then being able to turn on the communication when we're back safely back on the ground again. And then when it comes to ability of external sensors, then it's really the sky's the limit or imagination is the limit. And and the discussions with, with customers about, you know, gas detection, not not whether it's healthy or not healthy, but in terms of we're looking at, at transport of typically with tropical fruits, right, where, you know, you want to understand the maturation process of offered and so on so forth. And or when you're looking in the in the pharmaceutical sector, where we have colleagues in the field right now that are able to offer a crier sensor connection to the tracking device, right. But but only provides them the ability to do one data point. And really, if you're looking at the typical, for example, the the not only the vaccine, but other types of pharmaceutical that being transported these very low temperatures, typically each of those are contained in each of his own cryo box, right. And that means that as as as a shipment, you would want to be able to monitor 20 Of those, right? Yeah. And as it being done, right now, you have a data logger or temperature logger that's added to each of these right, but only at the arrival, you know, that something went wrong, because when you're recovering the data loggers, and we really want to be able to offer the realtor understanding not only a one data point, but up every single necessary data point during the transport for those

Tom Raftery: 13:58

fascinating, fascinating you mentioned maturation of tropical fruits, if I remember correctly, and I'm digging back into the depths of my memory from from from university. No, but I think ethylene is the gas that's added to for example, bananas while they're on route because they're they're typically picked green and then you add ethylene and that encourages maturation on route so that they arrive ripe is that

Erik Lund: 14:23

exactly that's why if you want when you buy a green bananas in the supermarket and you put them together with an apple, they're yellow within next 24 hours basically Right? Right. That that's very much true and you do see you know, tropical fruits, whether bananas whether pineapples whether mangoes are being picked, you know, super early and and either they are, you know, very much controlled atmosphere at seven degrees turn to transport until the very last moment, or the event being transported in a controlled atmosphere control environment. Whereas in certain cases, they asked you in tech cast to hold off the deriving process, and at the last moment or at at a special dedicated stations in, in Europe, for example, you, you maintain it under control atmosphere, and then as you say you add a little kick to get them. Right before then they hit the edge of the supermarket, right?

Tom Raftery: 15:27

Yeah, very good. Very good. Very good. We talked as well, in the prep call for this about the impact of this on sustainability. So do you want to explain to people listening, why you think this has implications for sustainability?

Erik Lund: 16:14

Very much. So. And I'll say, particularly, during this year, I say, about 80% of all calls, and conversations I've had with companies, whether customers or customers to be the aspect of sustainability has come up as part of the agenda of everybody, it's encouraging to hear it is and and, you know, for me, when I talk about a sustainable supply chain, you know, it means a sustainable, so my subscription supply chain means that where you have your business interests aligned with sort of the interest of the, of the planet, and in the context of supply chain, I know, it's a broad aspect, but it means that you have the built job to my supply chain, to reduce material waste, or optimize transport emissions, right. And again, when when you're talking about optimizing, transport emissions, it also means to be able to select the route, correct route, it means to be able to select the right partners that you're working with, to achieve those objectives that you have. And, and, you know, just just coming up of out of cop 26. And, and seeing how active logistics and shipping companies are in advocating and promoting, we need a path toward a net zero or an actual zero emission world, right? These drivers that are helping that, that process that conversation along right, and it all comes back to the water stays out of conversation about that, you need to have real insight to be able to make real decisions, right. And where we are today. And, and you look in particular, that the segment of, of our industry, data base themselves on data aggregation and signal aggregation, carbon emission or carbon footprint calculation is very much a part of the discussion. But that's also all of that is being done based on on approximations or statistical models. And we do have an opportunity to move that forward towards real understanding of real emissions. And certainly, we are not there yet. But we can see that the type of data that we can generate, the type of data that we can intermingle with, is becoming better and better were the true picture, not a statistical model of your kilo per cargo mile, or whatever it might be metric that you're working with, can become exact, rather than being an approximation. And that will definitely be a game changer.

Tom Raftery: 19:08

And how do you how do you switch from the approximation to the more exact just using Visilion? How does that help,

Erik Lund: 19:17

I think of where this where this right now a supply chain visibility solution or real time transport visibility solution helps you to to make the decision where you can optimize what you're doing now. So you can reduce the number of kilometers you're you're moving or you can even make even get an understanding that mode of transport or distribution pattern X versus Y is actually appropriate with the, with the gains that I can get efficiency gains I can I can get from that. We see, you know, multiple companies that are for not only sustainability reasons, but just practical logistical reasons are very much exploring rail options. Okay. And certainly rail versus road has a sustainability impact as well. But when we come to leaving the statistical models to actual information, then the type of data that we're seeing that in the small steps, baby steps right now that we're seeing that becoming available, but will become more and more available in futre are the aspects of understanding the exact emission profile for vessels that are being used and the vessels that are being used in an ocean transport, you are able to capture or you will be able to capture, what are the Evertonian body affraid? What are the planes that have been used, and you can then correlate that with the exact profile of a vessel. But in terms of the usage rates, the age, the maintenance standard and so on so forth, where they can be driven out. And I'm seeing and I can speak specifically when we talk about the ocean freight segment, you have a you have a skin, I was just gonna say it's really bless athletes, Icelandic I'm sorry, company that's working but making this data available for all of the shipping community, both for those that are chattering in vessels and so on so forth, that they can make the educated understanding of based on DH, the maintenance standard, you know, when did it happen last five years survey of where you have had a you know, button treatments done like that, where you really can can drive a very specific understanding of the expected fuel consumption and emission for the vessels, they are providing that data to the market now that can be used for this. And you're seeing one of the North European Regional Shotzi operators actually providing this service to to the customers now aware detail based on on this route, this distribution pattern, this full dis fulfillment rate, utilization rate we have on board the vessel, your container, Jack, your cargo is specific and being being given or been using sorry, so and so much emission for the services that you're requiring us to do. Right. So, and then in the beginning, certain is not a pretty picture. Right. And and certain companies are done. Right now, taking a step back and and not being able to deal with but others I'm pressing it? Yeah. Because regarding what to achieve the objectives we have in terms of carbon emissions, in terms of our climate commitments, so on and so forth, we do need to embrace the situation that we have now and start working with it. And that's why visibility solution like ours, ultimately, will be able to capture more and more the exact understanding of you know, the what, when and where, including the the transport modes, including the vehicle vessels, planes that are being used to execute your distribution. And what are the DT T mission profile, audited fuel standard being used by those. And that means, as a as a beneficial cargo owner, you can start to have a conversation with, with your partners on where do we need to go? What what initiatives are you taking, if that conversation does not really lead anywhere, you can make your educated decisions on how you want to do things based on your you know, your business requirements, your economical objective, but also your sustainability objectives. See more and more that those two are going hand in hand.

Tom Raftery: 24:13

Interesting. Interesting. I think we are maybe not there yet. But very soon, we'll be at a point where most major business decisions would be based not just on their financial implications, but also on their climate implications. And that those would be the two big deciding factors or many decisions, and having this data accessible is going to be hugely important. I know here in Europe, I think it's in 2024, it's going to be mandatory to report on emissions anyways, so having access to this data is going to be you know, mandatory.

Erik Lund: 24:46

Yeah, and certainly how come to achieve that by by by using the statistical model as of now, but but again, that the more visibility, you gain, you know, you can take that extra step and you can operationalize it to how you work with this, both as a provider of the services as well as the use of the services. And I think both for for both sides of the equation. You know, one thing I did the direct effects that you're having, but I think also we'll see and you alluded to a little bit the the indirect effects in terms of you know, how will this actually play into your perception of us as a brand? Yeah, it customs will make the system better that, and you know, we're all fighting for talent, you know, how are we being perceived as an attractive employer, where we are not only working for achieving the best book for shareholders, but actually also taken our our global responsibility series?

Tom Raftery: 25:49

Super, super. Eric, we're coming towards the end of the podcast now, is there any question that I have not asked that you wish I had or any topic we've not addressed that you think it's important for people to be aware of?

Erik Lund: 26:03

I think we, we've covered a lot of ground. And I think we've also covered a lot of aspirational grounds when we talk about sustainability in in the supply chain. But really, the the key aspect that I sort of want to convey is that this is a journey and and when working with visibility, as well as working with sustainability within the supply chain. It is a journey, but a journey starts with the first step and, and that's very much the conversation that we're having with, with with companies on how to we get this journey started. And, and then it's a question of how the companies mature and using, what they get access to, and certainly also from our side, and then adjusting and growing with with companies in providing what they are looking for. And will be looking for. Yeah, yeah.

Tom Raftery: 27:02

Eric, that's great. If people want to know more about yourself, Eric Lund or about Visilion or about any of the topics we discussed this morning. Where would you have me direct them?

Erik Lund: 27:14

Ask people to go to our to a website, which is Visilionn Visilion.com. Or people should be more than welcome to to to look me up on my email, Erik, with a K, ERIK Dot Lund@sony.com.

Tom Raftery: 27:38

Perfect, perfect. And I put a link to the Visilion website in the podcast so people can find it and access it easily that way. Great. Eric that's been fantastic. Thanks a million for coming on the podcast today.

Erik Lund: 27:49

Thank you very much, Tom. It's a pleasure.

Tom Raftery: 27:51

Okay, we've come to the end of the show. Thanks, everyone for listening. If you'd like to know more about digital supply chains, head on over to sa p.com/digital supply chain or, or simply drop me an email to Tom Raftery at sa p.com. If you'd like to show, please don't forget to subscribe to it and your podcast application of choice to get new episodes as soon as they're published. Also, please don't forget to rate and review the podcast. It really does help new people to find the show. Thanks. catch you all next time.